New zealand customs fine - advice

NoodleDoodleMan

Kim_13 said:

If asked the question in future, they should just answer 'not to my knowledge.' If officials then wish to search the luggage to check that there are no prohibited items, then so be it. In that case, they won't have given an answer that might turn out to be incorrect. 

I may be wrong - but I believe all travellers entering NZ have to complete a customs form - so if you declare no foodstuffs, (or whatever the appropriate section asks) then a "not to my knowledge" claim is not going to be a defence.

Kim_13

NoodleDoodleMan said:

Kim_13 said:

If asked the question in future, they should just answer 'not to my knowledge.' If officials then wish to search the luggage to check that there are no prohibited items, then so be it. In that case, they won't have given an answer that might turn out to be incorrect. 

I may be wrong - but I believe all travellers entering NZ have to complete a customs form - so if you declare no foodstuffs, (or whatever the appropriate section asks) then a "not to my knowledge" claim is not going to be a defence.

I meant could they not just write that on the form? Anyone who does not answer no hasn’t unequivocally declared they don’t have any, so forgetting/making a mistake would not be an issue and at worst x would need to be disposed of when checked.

eDicky

Kim_13 said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

Kim_13 said:

If asked the question in future, they should just answer 'not to my knowledge.' If officials then wish to search the luggage to check that there are no prohibited items, then so be it. In that case, they won't have given an answer that might turn out to be incorrect. 

I may be wrong - but I believe all travellers entering NZ have to complete a customs form - so if you declare no foodstuffs, (or whatever the appropriate section asks) then a "not to my knowledge" claim is not going to be a defence.

I meant could they not just write that on the form?

Let's be realistic...

sheramber

jimi_man said:

Grumpy_chap said:

noitsnotme said:

jimi_man said:

To be fair to the OP, the mother is apparently forgetful and was unaware they were there. 

From my point of view we used to travel to our boat in Greece - flights were on a Sunday and supermarkets weren’t open on Sunday afternoons so if one wanted dinner on the Sunday and breakfast on the Monday then we’d need to take various items (often including garlic, onions, and various other meat and diary stuff (prior to Brexit). So I understand why some people do carry stuff in their cases with them. It was certainly very common amongst the self catering fraternity. 

I think it’s more a question of why were onions packed in hand luggage in the first place.

If the mother wasn’t aware they were there, was it the husband who put them there?

Unless there is something like dementia involved, but even then I’m not sure that’s a legitimate excuse as surely the mentally capable partner should check what has been packed.

When boarding the flights to NZ, won't the Mother have been asked the normal sequence of security questions:

• Did you pack this yourself?
• Do you have any prohibited items packed?
• Has anyone interfered with the bags since you packed it?
• Are you carrying anything for anyone else?

Was the Mother aware of the onions when answering these questions?  
Did the Mother lie when answering these questions?

Did the onions get added to the hand luggage after answering the questions but before arriving in NZ?
I remain perplexed as to how / why anyone would carry two onions as hand luggage?  Or even take two onions all the way to NZ - AIUI, onions are freely available in NZ food stores.

Those questions refer to hold luggage not hand luggage. And the ‘prohibited items’ refers to a list which is usually pictured on a card and involves stuff like petrol, explosives etc etc. Onions are not in that list. So firstly they don’t apply to hand luggage (on the basis that you could avoid check in and just go straight through to the gate so the questions wouldn’t be asked) and secondly even if they did apply she hasn’t lied (from what the OP says) since onions aren’t a prohibited item to be carried on a plane. 

But according to the OP the mother wasn’t aware of them anyway (she’d forgotten). 

The OP has stated that the onions were packed on leaving the last place they stayed at so no, they weren’t added to the hand luggage afterwards. As stated those questions are irrelevant to the onions and hand luggage. 

Just because you’ve never carried onions doesn’t mean others haven’t. Lots of people carry lots of things for different reasons. The OP has explained why the onions were in the bag and yes, everyone knows that onions are available in NZ. I don’t think that’s the point!

The point is that they did take onions in and got fined. And that’s that. Forgetting isn’t a defence and they are liable for the fine. The only question is whether they pay the fine or whether they don’t and thus don’t go back to NZ. 

Onions are not in that list.

but "Plant or Plant Products"  is and the list includes bulbs- an onion is a bulb.

Grumpy_chap

sheramber said:

jimi_man said:

Grumpy_chap said:

noitsnotme said:

jimi_man said:

To be fair to the OP, the mother is apparently forgetful and was unaware they were there. 

From my point of view we used to travel to our boat in Greece - flights were on a Sunday and supermarkets weren’t open on Sunday afternoons so if one wanted dinner on the Sunday and breakfast on the Monday then we’d need to take various items (often including garlic, onions, and various other meat and diary stuff (prior to Brexit). So I understand why some people do carry stuff in their cases with them. It was certainly very common amongst the self catering fraternity. 

I think it’s more a question of why were onions packed in hand luggage in the first place.

If the mother wasn’t aware they were there, was it the husband who put them there?

Unless there is something like dementia involved, but even then I’m not sure that’s a legitimate excuse as surely the mentally capable partner should check what has been packed.

When boarding the flights to NZ, won't the Mother have been asked the normal sequence of security questions:

• Did you pack this yourself?
• Do you have any prohibited items packed?
• Has anyone interfered with the bags since you packed it?
• Are you carrying anything for anyone else?

Was the Mother aware of the onions when answering these questions?  
Did the Mother lie when answering these questions?

Did the onions get added to the hand luggage after answering the questions but before arriving in NZ?
I remain perplexed as to how / why anyone would carry two onions as hand luggage?  Or even take two onions all the way to NZ - AIUI, onions are freely available in NZ food stores.

Those questions refer to hold luggage not hand luggage. And the ‘prohibited items’ refers to a list which is usually pictured on a card and involves stuff like petrol, explosives etc etc. Onions are not in that list. So firstly they don’t apply to hand luggage (on the basis that you could avoid check in and just go straight through to the gate so the questions wouldn’t be asked) and secondly even if they did apply she hasn’t lied (from what the OP says) since onions aren’t a prohibited item to be carried on a plane. 

But according to the OP the mother wasn’t aware of them anyway (she’d forgotten). 

The OP has stated that the onions were packed on leaving the last place they stayed at so no, they weren’t added to the hand luggage afterwards. As stated those questions are irrelevant to the onions and hand luggage. 

Just because you’ve never carried onions doesn’t mean others haven’t. Lots of people carry lots of things for different reasons. The OP has explained why the onions were in the bag and yes, everyone knows that onions are available in NZ. I don’t think that’s the point!

The point is that they did take onions in and got fined. And that’s that. Forgetting isn’t a defence and they are liable for the fine. The only question is whether they pay the fine or whether they don’t and thus don’t go back to NZ. 

Onions are not in that list.

but "Plant or Plant Products"  is and the list includes bulbs- an onion is a bulb.

Plus "any food"

NoodleDoodleMan

Onions are surely in the "any food" category ?