New zealand customs fine - advice

MattMattMattUK

lon_85 said:

Hi everyone My parents flew to new zealand and forgot they had packed 2 onions In their carry-on luggage -  they were issued a fine of 400 NZD by customs and given option of pay now, pay in 14 days or appeal. They chose to appeal and did not hear back until now- they are back in India now. Does anyone know what will happen if they don't pay - can they be banned from NZ or can they extradite them for court case? Letter says they need to pay 1000 NZD if they don't pay the current fine or risk going to court. Any legal experts here that can advise? When they were initially checked they had to give their uk home address email phone number etc 

It seems odd that they thought they had grounds for appeal, I would imagine very few people have ever packed onions in their carry on luggage, let alone forgot about it.

lon_85 said:

Unfortunately my mum is forgetting lots of stuff :-( her old age

Well they didn't really have grounds to appeal my dad just tried his best - said that my mum has memory issues with old age and taking blood pressure tablets etc 

They have just written back stating their appeal failed and they need to pay fine or risk it increasing to 1000 nzd or go to court! Considering they are in another country now what are the consequences do they have any rights?

The NZ government can and does take action through courts in other countries to recover unpaid fines, one of my employees had that issue, though it does depend on the country of residence. If your parents live in India full time that is probably less of a risk than if they live in the UK. 

The main issue would be if they intend to visit New Zealand again (or possibly Australia as they have lots of reciprocal deals), they might find themselves given the option of paying a further increased fine on entry or even denied entry.

eDicky

lon_85 said:

They have just written back stating their appeal failed and they need to pay fine or risk it increasing to 1000 nzd or go to court! Considering they are in another country now what are the consequences do they have any rights?

Well, they have the right to pay the original penalty amount, before it increases to NZD1000, nothing else.

Otherwise...

jimi_man said:

If they never want to travel to or through New Zealand again then I’d probably leave it. If they do, or there is a chance that they might then I’d pay it. 

I couldn't say how persistent they will be in collecting the fine, if unpaid. New Zealand and Australia are very strict on this kind of phytosanitary control.

jimi_man

eDicky said:

lon_85 said:

They have just written back stating their appeal failed and they need to pay fine or risk it increasing to 1000 nzd or go to court! Considering they are in another country now what are the consequences do they have any rights?

Well, they have the right to pay the original penalty amount, before it increases to NZD1000, nothing else.

Otherwise...

jimi_man said:

If they never want to travel to or through New Zealand again then I’d probably leave it. If they do, or there is a chance that they might then I’d pay it. 

I couldn't say how persistent they will be in collecting the fine, if unpaid. New Zealand and Australia are very strict on this kind of phytosanitary control.

I’m sure they are and they are their rules so they can do what they like. But they aren’t transferable to another country so unless NZ go down the road of extradition then there isn’t a lot they can do. 

And let’s face it no matter how seriously they take their rules, no-one is getting extradited for a fine of under £200! So I’d say they are pretty safe! 

Personally, at around £180 or so it’s chicken feed, so I’d just pay it - just in case I ever wanted to visit or route through NZ or Aus again. 

Emmia

jimi_man said:

eDicky said:

lon_85 said:

They have just written back stating their appeal failed and they need to pay fine or risk it increasing to 1000 nzd or go to court! Considering they are in another country now what are the consequences do they have any rights?

Well, they have the right to pay the original penalty amount, before it increases to NZD1000, nothing else.

Otherwise...

jimi_man said:

If they never want to travel to or through New Zealand again then I’d probably leave it. If they do, or there is a chance that they might then I’d pay it. 

I couldn't say how persistent they will be in collecting the fine, if unpaid. New Zealand and Australia are very strict on this kind of phytosanitary control.

I’m sure they are and they are their rules so they can do what they like. But they aren’t transferable to another country so unless NZ go down the road of extradition then there isn’t a lot they can do. 

And let’s face it no matter how seriously they take their rules, no-one is getting extradited for a fine of under £200! So I’d say they are pretty safe! 

Personally, at around £180 or so it’s chicken feed, so I’d just pay it - just in case I ever wanted to visit or route through NZ or Aus again. 

They don't need to extradite. A fine can be enforced by the domestic tax authority of the country the parents are living, if a relevant agreement is in place.

NZ are particularly active in seeking recovery of fines /taxes owed to them in other countries, and are also active in recovering fines incurred by NZ residents owed to other countries. 

The question is whether they have an agreement in place enabling this for residents in India, and/or if the parents wish to return to NZ (or possibly Australia) in the future.

Edit: a quick Google search indicates that agreements on double taxation are in place between India and NZ. Recovery provisions for fines may be included in that agreement (but I haven't looked personally) so it may depend on the relative efficiency of the Indian authorities.


*I still don't understand how people inadvertently had two onions in their hand luggage.

jimi_man

Sure but this is nothing to do with taxation. This is a fine, pure and simple. If not paid or contested then it gets registered with the Department of Courts as with parking fines, traffic fines etc and in the event of leaving the country or entering it then it’s likely to cause problems. But if the person has left and gone back to India then that’s pretty much it until they return. 

If you’re suggesting that NZ are going to get the Indian Govt to track down the individuals and recover $400NZD then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I’ve spent 30+ years in law enforcement in the U.K. in the police and the Serious Fraud Office and have experience of getting other countries to do things on our behalf and I can tell you that it’s both difficult and expensive and that’s for things that are considerably more serious. 

Note I’m not advocating that they should avoid it, as I stated, I would pay it. I’m just saying that if they don’t that it’s pretty certain that nothing will happen if they never go back again. 

molerat

Emmia said:

*I still don't understand how people inadvertently had two onions in their hand luggage.

I suggest watching some of the border control type programmes, particularly the Aus / NZ ones.  You would be amazed, watching one this morning and the person had "forgotten" they had a whole suitcase full of food !

LightFlare

molerat said:

Emmia said:

*I still don't understand how people inadvertently had two onions in their hand luggage.

I suggest watching some of the border control type programmes, particularly the Aus / NZ ones.  You would be amazed, watching one this morning and the person had "forgotten" they had a whole suitcase full of food !

always make me wonder about the motivation ofthis - do people seriously think that other countries dont sell food ?

there often seems to be a "misunderstanding" of the definition of food - although the declaration wording is very specific

it's usually a certain demographic that get caught out with these things (or maybe its selective broadcasting)

jimi_man

To be fair to the OP, the mother is apparently forgetful and was unaware they were there. 

From my point of view we used to travel to our boat in Greece - flights were on a Sunday and supermarkets weren’t open on Sunday afternoons so if one wanted dinner on the Sunday and breakfast on the Monday then we’d need to take various items (often including garlic, onions, and various other meat and diary stuff (prior to Brexit). So I understand why some people do carry stuff in their cases with them. It was certainly very common amongst the self catering fraternity. 

LightFlare

jimi_man said:

To be fair to the OP, the mother is apparently forgetful and was unaware they were there. 

From my point of view we used to travel to our boat in Greece - flights were on a Sunday and supermarkets weren’t open on Sunday afternoons so if one wanted dinner on the Sunday and breakfast on the Monday then we’d need to take various items (often including garlic, onions, and various other meat and diary stuff (prior to Brexit). So I understand why some people do carry stuff in their cases with them. It was certainly very common amongst the self catering fraternity. 

With customs declarations - forgetfulness doesn’t constitute a defence.

Im Curious as to why she even packed them in hand luggage in the first place and surely the smell gave them away.

Ballard

molerat said:

Emmia said:

*I still don't understand how people inadvertently had two onions in their hand luggage.

I suggest watching some of the border control type programmes, particularly the Aus / NZ ones.  You would be amazed, watching one this morning and the person had "forgotten" they had a whole suitcase full of food !

I went to Aus & NZ back in 2015. On both flights they made announcements that no food whatsoever could be taken in, including anything supplied on the plane. In Auckland there was a lengthy queue (45 minutes if memory serves) to go through bio security where my walking boots were taken from my hold luggage and I was quizzed whether I’d been to any farms recently.

I’m not doubting that this was accidental, but you do have plenty of time to think about what’s in your luggage.