ECO scheme and other schemes for boilers, tenants, not owner occupiers

Chrysalis

So background, central heating exists, but boiler is now defunct (failed check and too old for replacement parts).

Landlord unsurprisingly wants to install expensive to run, cheap to install electric panel heating system.

Checked schemes, and I noticed owner occupier is more generous for no logical reason, tenant schemes have a very bizarre restriction that the property has never had central heating, whilst owner occupier covers the situation at hand.

I am assuming then its a case of tough luck right if LL wont replace the gas boiler?

Current EPC is F (with gas central heating).

There is still a slim hope as the decision hasnt been made, but the electric solution is currently the favoured option.  So if anyone has advice on potential schemes, or negotiation tactics, it would be appreciated, even if the cost is subsidised by tenant.

Also I have noticed electric combo boilers are cheaper than gas, and I would assume are still superior to things like panel heaters as combined water/room heating, but maybe I am wrong here.  The property also has a problem that the immersion heating for the water is really bad. 

(If there is no schemes, and it becomes more of a LL negotiation topic I ill request to be moved to LL section)

MP1995

Current EPC of F means the LL is breaking the law.

Electric boilers are no more efficient than panel heaters.

If you love the Property perhaps offer to assist with paying for the new gas boiler which I presume would suit you best?

Ildhund

If you're eligible for ECO4 and the property is suitable for it, you might be able to get a heat pump instead of the boiler. Tenants are eligible if they can tick the right boxes, but the landlord has to agree, of course. 

Chrysalis

MP1995 said:

Current EPC of F means the LL is breaking the law.

Electric boilers are no more efficient than panel heaters.

If you love the Property perhaps offer to assist with paying for the new gas boiler which I presume would suit you best?

Am considering that, I think the issue would be we need an understanding of what happens if I leave.  Although I am a long term tenant, it would bite if I invested and then am out a year later.

I also have done the maths, on the potential benefits as the amount I currently lose on gas SC and pilot light over the year is in the 100s.  So it might not be a disaster financially, but the immersion definitely needs improving, it simply isnt up to the job of filling a hot bath (water is cold again before even half full, whilst gas can fill it and the sink for dishes as well with some left over, and immersion is super slow to heat with a max temp not very hot, just warm hot'ish).  Agile seems to be anywhere from paying me to use electric to low teens off peak.  Rationally or not I feel I am more bothered about the water than room heating.  As some will know I dont typically use a ton of heating in my property, but I do love my hot baths, and will use water heating all year round.

ECO advised me, they wont fund it unless the property has never ever had a gas boiler, it seems if a property goes from gas boiler to electric, even though it is not tenant's fault they wont fund a switch back or fund keeping it on gas.  Which is somewhat frustrating as the occupation owner scheme's seem to cover that same situation.

Chrysalis

Also I just considered another problem, the supplier charging to disconnect the gas, if they were to bill like it was for this person, I think I would be reasonable to ask the LL to cover that fee?  As it is their decision if they choose to no longer use gas

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6434884/cost-to-cap-gas-supply

mmmmikey

Hi, seems to me like the way forward might be to agree an appropriate rent increase in return for fitting a new boiler. That way you're sharing the cost in a "clean" way that wouldn't cause problems if you moved out for any reason. You get the benefit of a new boiler and the landlord gets the benefit of protecting their investment and increased income. Really all depends on your relationship with your landlord and their willingness to negotiate. 

Chrysalis

I informed them of a potential fee for disconnecting the meter and will subsidise a solution that keeps the gas in place, they said would pass up to the LL, and a planned electrician visit never happened, so thats the latest.

FreeBear

MP1995 said: Electric boilers are no more efficient than panel heaters.

Electric boiler incur losses heating the water and pumping it round to the radiators. Panel heaters would be more efficient, but still darned expensive to run.

Heat pumps are the only form of heating that I would recommend - Specified correctly and properly set up, potentially cheaper than gas to run. As the existing (broken) system uses gas, the LL would qualify for the £7500 Boiler Upgrade Scheme grant. If he goes to someone like Octopus, he may well get a quote similar to the cost of panel heaters.

Chrysalis

I guess you mean this?

https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/boiler-upgrade-scheme

Interesting it does indeed say it can be used for properties rented out.

Checking the EPC, it looks like the grade has changed.   I checked as the above scheme says there can be no outstanding wall or loft installation issues on the EPC.

Loft is N/A, Wall is rated very poor, however I have been told by Octopus in the past when they did a free assessment, that the property cannot have wall insulation due to its age, structure type or something, I dont know exactly as I didnt ask them to explain more, and have forgotten now.  The grade improvement looks like from looking at the report is down to me replacing all bulbs with LED.  The primary weaknesses listed as that can be remedied are lack of room thermostats, lack of cylinder thermostat, wall insulation and the single glazed windows.

But because the EPC does list as wall insulation as a remedy step, I think the property wouldnt qualify plus it seems according to the above link, the net cost would still be very high so I dont think the LL would do it.  I could pass this info on though.

FreeBear

Chrysalis said: Checking the EPC, it looks like the grade has changed.   I checked as the above scheme says there can be no outstanding wall or loft installation issues on the EPC.

The rules were relaxed back in April (I believe), so thermal upgrades are no longer a prerequisite.

Chrysalis

So a little update on this, looking at smart meter data, to get enough hot water for a hot bath, the immersion used about 6 kWh of electric, historically my gas boiler has required closer to 20 kWh, so way less efficient (I wont mention what it needs to heat rooms, it will make eyes water). That means providing my electric is no more than 300% unit rate, it wont cost me more money, in addition if I add the pilot light usage for idle boiler days which is about 18 kWh per week, and then the standing charges, it will actually be cheaper for me to heat water via immersion assuming the gas meter is removed. The LL office didnt balk at all when I mentioned potential meter disconnection fees which was odd as they usually flip at even spending £100 on something, and the latest conversation was all options are still open, but the LL now agrees with me he prefers to not replace radiators, so either gas boiler, electric boiler. They are apparently also still trying to source parts for existing boiler. However I suspect they have already decided on electric as there is still the electrician to do quote, yet no one planned to come for a gas boiler quote, so I think if they cant find parts it will be electric boiler. I also suspect they may try to avoid disconnecting the meter and just expect me to pay SC for something I have no use of, so that will probably be a conversation where I transfer the bills to them for gas.  Sorry for the formatting of this post, looks like all line breaks are ignored.