Variable speed fine

drjohn67

TooManyPoints said:

“It is amazing the amount of trust that people have in the organisations of the state despite numerous examples of incompetence.”

 That may be so. 

But my advice was nothing to do with trusting the authorities. It was based on what I know to be the legal position. 

I explained your options and left it to you.  However, if you had taken your case to court before this issue was identified, and pleaded not guilty, there is no doubt in my mind that you would have been convicted. I believe taking the course was the right decision. 

Unless here was evidence to show that you were one of those effected, I would say the same now because although this fault in the system will aid a small number of drivers it will not be a “get-out-of-jail-free” card for everyone. It is insufficient to show that  a device might be subject to error (because that could be said about anything). It must be shown that the particular device on that particular occasion was subject to error. That must be shown – by the defendant – “on the balance of probabilities” (i.e. more likely than not). If this is successful the court cannot rely on the assumption that the device was working correctly and so cannot be sure the offence was committed. 

The danger here is that drivers accused of speeding will cite this problem as a defence when in fact their transgression was not influenced by it. That would be unwise – and could be expensive.

Yes. The advice to take the punishment despite not having committed the offence was correct. Pragmatic solution to a system that refuses to check the accuracy of the technology/programming used.

My comment was more to those posters who implied/suggested that I was not being truthful.

There is a danger that people will lose trust in the Highways Agency and Police although that will be due to the failings of the organisation. 

As I know that the camera changed around 3 minutes later than they claimed, leading to early activation of the camera, I am confident that I will get a refund.

The same with the Self-Assessment fine that built up to £1500. Despite claiming to have cancelled the fine, they had simply taken it from my account. It all was resolved very rapidly when I sent them the screenshot taken whilst deployed overseas (esssentially 'You are not required to submit self-assessment'). They seemingly had set up a duplicate account and the account number used on their correspondence related to the dummy account! They deleted the account without refunding me. Fortunately, I had attempted multiple times and captured multiple screenshots.

I have a dashcam now to protect me (I don't speed).

victor2

drjohn67 said:

....
As I know that the camera changed around 3 minutes later than they claimed, leading to early activation of the camera, I am confident that I will get a refund

....

Do please update us with the eventual outcome of this. It is surely going to result in many more people challenging speed camera fines, if the "speed cameras don't lie" belief is shot down.

As has already been said, it is amazing that nobody to date has produced dashcam footage relating to such a case.

TooManyPoints

As has already been said, it is amazing that nobody to date has produced dashcam footage relating to such a case.

I think they probably have because reports say that is what prompted the enquiry.

It is obviously impossible for the police to check the reliability of every device on every occasion they detect a speeding vehicle. But don’t get me wrong – this is an absolute disgrace made even more so because, it seems, the problem has been known about for quite some time.

My concern is that people will see the details of this and make the assumption that no devices can be trusted in any circumstances. That isn’t what this illustrates at all. 

jeffuk

It seems unfair that drivers will have had to declare convictions to their insurance provider and likely faced increased premiums.

victor2

jeffuk said:

It seems unfair that drivers will have had to declare convictions to their insurance provider and likely faced increased premiums.

Not only that, but what about those who got a ban and/or lost their job due to totting up too many points. You can't undo that with a simple refund.

victor2

Just saw a TV report about the current confusion with speed cameras. 

It appears there was a problem with the delay in cameras receiving the new speed limit of up to 10 seconds. BUT this would only affect drivers seeing a change UP, from say 50 to 60 and the camera still thinking the limit was 50 for a brief period after it was 60.

So, the opposite to the OP's circumstances, but still many fines are being cancelled due to a loss of confidence in the camera system used on smart motorways and parts of the A14 near Cambridge...