CCTV camera recommendations to upgrade analogue.

mda99das

I have an old analogue system that is failing - the fault seems to be due to electrolysis as the 12V DC power meets the connector (as the metals are different) This is causing voltage to drop out.
Who ever installed the junction box, did not take into account the dampness of the UK weather, and while they may be waterproof, there is moisture in the air.  I certainly will be using some time of silicone / hot glue or some kind of epoxy when I change to IP cameras. I would rather do the work myself, ( I know how to crimp RJ45 connectors, and the basics of home networking) However what I lack knowledge in, is what CCTV system provides the best bang for buck. I will be using outdoor Cat 6 cabling and as the 12V DC lines are already there, I won't be using PoE. I will have to install the Cat 6 cable which is fine. I will leave the coax cable in place. My requirements are good clarity both day and night. Audio would be great, something that allows for a DDNS system to review anywhere in the world.
I notice Hikvision seem to be very common but given there is some politics involving the CCP, and unless you are guarding nuclear secrets its not a big deal.
Are 4K cameras worth it?
I have posted this on some of the CCTV forums, but zero help.
cheers

Eldi_Dos

If the junction box is waterproof but has moisture in it this could be caused by osmosis.One way to counteract that would be to fit a schrader valve to box or lid then pressurise with desiccated air,leave for a while bleed the air out then pressure again with desiccated air. That should help cut back with the problems if you remake connections inside box.

cymruchris

If you're using outdoor cat6 cabling - if you choose the right network video recorder, you won't need the 12v power cable, as many can provide the camera with power over ethernet - most IP cameras tend to be POE as standard anyway. Aside from the political rumblings, Hikvision tends to be very reliable. I've used them for several years in multiple locations, and haven't yet had a camera or video recorder failure. I've just finished installing a system in my new home, being an M series recorder with seven 4 or 8mp cameras depending on where I've sited them. The app is one of the more reliable with very little/no down-time. Easily accessed via mobile - apple or android - PC - and at a push a Macbook (Hik and Mac never really hit it off - it's doable but you don't get all the bells an whistles)

In your own case some of the things to consider will be:

- Budget

- How many cameras

- What kind of areas need covering (i.e. large wide open spaces - narrow spaces - indoor - outdoor)

- What's the night time illumination like? Are there streetlights? Do you have PIR lights?

mda99das

Thanks for replying.
Some of the cameras will be next to PIR lights. I am going to be having a major expense of a roof in the next 2 years, (best time to do it is during a recession) so I will be redoing a lot of the cable work to take advantage.
For some cameras I need a wide field, others where the front and back doors a narrow view is fine, and the rest an intermediate. 
From what I understand, the playback is important, pointless having 8MP when playback is only 15FPS.
As for the security side, all big tech tracks you, if you really don't want to be tracked then live off grid, it's just the way the world is. 
I am looking at 5-7 cameras, and will need a DVR / NVR
The reason why I wanted a separate power connection is  due to bandwidth, you sacrifice a data pair to cary  voltage, so max speed is 100mbps rather than a gig. A lot of these cameras do have a power source input, but is there some kind of diode that prevents the ethernet side carrying DC 12 volts as this will blow any network equipment. On a side note in terms of logistics can you use coax thats already there to carry DC12 volts.  I have a bunch of  redundant SKY coax cables that criss cross the roof area, was thinking of repurposing some as a voltage line . I don't use sky, the dish doesn't even do freesat, and I will be getting them taken down.
Budget £500-600 approx could go as much as 2k really. I will be doing the work, so the labour cost will really be cut.

cymruchris

I run 8mp cameras on Cat 6 and it's all good. The industry runs 8mp cameras on Cat 6 and it's all good. I wouldn't waste my time trying to repurpose old cables. I'd rip them out and make the place look neater. But that's for you to decide. I have only ever used POE and will continue to use POE, so can't advise on your plan to run separate power sources along old cables.

I have a gigabit POE switch in my loft which has a wireless bridge to my garage carrying data for 3 cameras, and 2 additional cameras on direct POE connection, so that I have only one cable coming down into my office to a wall mounted network socket. Keeps things very clean and simple.

FPS is useful - but the thing you need to look at is bandwidth - not FPS.

Most HV cameras will run at 25fps - but it's the bandwidth that's key - not how many frames.

If there's major movement on all of your cameras at the same time - can the NVR cope?

The M series from HV is the latest, and has the best bandwidth capabilities. If you're planning on running 8mp cameras, this is the range I'd be looking at.

You also have to consider storage - with it best to use a 'surveillance' drive rather than a regular HDD. On an 8 camera system with constant record 24/7 at 8mp 25fps - you'd probably want at least 4tb for a reasonable time history. The HV NVR's usually can hold more than one disk - so it's usually worth putting in two - then if a HDD ever fails, it'll tell you it's failed, but will still be recording on the remaining disk.

Cameras come with two popular lens configurations being 2.8mm and 4mm - both fairly wide fields of view. The 2.8mm being the wider, these are useful for general overviews of areas, but don't give you great facial detail when people are far away. Then there are varifocal cameras which are usually adjustable up to around 12mm, these can be better where the camera is mounted further away, but you want to get closer in on an area. Try not to mount your cameras too high - otherwise you'll be getting wonderful images of people's bald spots and not their faces.

HV run a range of hybrid smart cameras as the latest generation. They run on infra red/black and white at night, but as soon as they detect movement of a human or car (selectable) the built in light illuminates, and they switch to colour. They have older models that are white light only, but this tends to give a degree of light pollution as they're on all night.

I think if you're buying new - you won't get all you 'want' for £600. The hybrid 8mp are a couple of hundred pounds each, same for the M series NVR, add in a couple of decent hard drives, some external network cable, and you probably won't have much change from £1500 ish.

There are ways to cut the cost - 4mp cameras are a bit cheaper and do still give decent images.

As much as CCTV images have improved vastly in recent years - even with 8mp cameras don't expect super HD pictures in the dead of night - if there's someone lurking in the shadows at the far end of the garden - they'll still look pretty awful. But if they get close to your property (which is why you want the cameras in the first place) they'll be decent quality images.

Mutton_Geoff

Eldi_Dos said:

If the junction box is waterproof but has moisture in it this could be caused by osmosis.One way to counteract that would be to fit a schrader valve to box or lid then pressurise with desiccated air,leave for a while bleed the air out then pressure again with desiccated air. That should help cut back with the problems if you remake connections inside box.

Is it just me or does this advice read like some nonsensical AI reply? No disrespect to the poster but schrader valves and pumping up junction boxes to keep moisture from getting in through "osmosis"??

BarelySentientAI

Mutton_Geoff said:

Eldi_Dos said:

If the junction box is waterproof but has moisture in it this could be caused by osmosis.One way to counteract that would be to fit a schrader valve to box or lid then pressurise with desiccated air,leave for a while bleed the air out then pressure again with desiccated air. That should help cut back with the problems if you remake connections inside box.

Is it just me or does this advice read like some nonsensical AI reply? No disrespect to the poster but schrader valves and pumping up junction boxes to keep moisture from getting in through "osmosis"??

Filling the junction box with dry air seems like a perfectly logical suggestion to someone who has problems with moist air in their box (ooh matron).

Eldi_Dos

Mutton_Geoff said:

Eldi_Dos said:

If the junction box is waterproof but has moisture in it this could be caused by osmosis.One way to counteract that would be to fit a schrader valve to box or lid then pressurise with desiccated air,leave for a while bleed the air out then pressure again with desiccated air. That should help cut back with the problems if you remake connections inside box.

Is it just me or does this advice read like some nonsensical AI reply? No disrespect to the poster but schrader valves and pumping up junction boxes to keep moisture from getting in through "osmosis"??

It is just you I would say, how else is moisture getting into box if it is waterproof.
Pressurising equipment boxes is not new,was doing it in the seventies on PCM equipment.

Mutton_Geoff

BarelySentientAI said:

Filling the junction box with dry air seems like a perfectly logical suggestion to someone who has problems with moist air in their box (ooh matron).

Do you think a typical junction box would still be hermetically sealed after it had fixing screw holes drilled through the back and cables poked into it through rubber boots or glands?

BarelySentientAI

Mutton_Geoff said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Filling the junction box with dry air seems like a perfectly logical suggestion to someone who has problems with moist air in their box (ooh matron).

Do you think a typical junction box would still be hermetically sealed after it had fixing screw holes drilled through the back and cables poked into it through rubber boots or glands?

Better than sitting it in a puddle.

cymruchris

Eldi_Dos said:

If the junction box is waterproof but has moisture in it this could be caused by osmosis.One way to counteract that would be to fit a schrader valve to box or lid then pressurise with desiccated air,leave for a while bleed the air out then pressure again with desiccated air. That should help cut back with the problems if you remake connections inside box.

With POE cameras you don't have the need for 'junction boxes' as you would have done with power supplies where you would have used a chocolate block/twistlok connector or similar to connect the incoming power cable to the camera power cable.

The cameras come with a small device/housing  that wraps around where the network cable joins the camera, and that in itself is fairly watertight - put that within the confines of a junction box - and you won't need to do all that pumping and bleeding with valves. If you then use suitable 20mm glands on the box rather than just poking the cable through, again you get another layer of defence.