Title plan different to actual land in use

MoreToastPlease

Hello all

I've checked the forum to see if anyone else has had a similar issue, however all cases have there own individual differences so I'll explain mine.

I purchased a house/land over 15 years ago and for over 13 of those have been occupying an unused alley/pathway next to my land (adverse possession). The land does not belong to the local council and is unregistered (after contacting Land Registry).

After advice from my solicitor, I applied for and was granted planning permission to 'extend my curtilage'. There were and have been no issues at all from locals, the council or community groups - in fact the reaction has been positive.


Back to today and I/we are looking to sell our property. Obvious the land we have and have used for over 13 years differs from the title deeds, or the indicated red area on a Land Registry map. This brings a few questions (moral and legal):

-would the next logical step for me be to apply for possessory title of the land? Would having this make any difference when selling?

-could an application be made to Land Registry to have the title plan boundary redrawn? I understand they are not keen to do this in general.

(Obviously applying for either of the above would take time and delay any plans to put the property on the market.)

-does the situation need to be explained to house viewers/potential purchasers or is it up to them to 'do their homework' as such?


Have seen some similar posts and replies from people who clearly have more knowledge on these matters than myself, I also believe there is someone from the Land Registry who posts on occasion? Would be very grateful to hear from anyone with any advice or suggestions.


Many Thanks 

user1977

It would make sense to explain it to buyers. What is actually on the land in question? Will be more of a problem if you've built anything on it (or are using it for service media or access)

Section62

MoreToastPlease said:

I purchased a house/land over 15 years ago and for over 13 of those have been occupying an unused alley/pathway next to my land (adverse possession). The land does not belong to the local council and is unregistered (after contacting Land Registry).

Usually these alleyway/pathway arrangements provide a legal right of way for one or more properties - if you managed to get AP then any legal rights of way enjoyed by neighbouring properties would probably be unaffected - you'd own the land, but would be limited what you could do with it, and may inherit a responsibility to maintain it.

I've dealt professionally with situations where alleyways/access roads were owned by a developer that no longer exists and nobody is around to take responsibility.  The council is unlikely to be interested as them taking ownership brings costs with no benefits - about the only situation where they may act if if there are problems with crime and/or ASB, and the action then is probably limited to arranging a gating order and gates to control access.

If I was one of your neighbours and had a legal right of way over the alleyway then I too would be quite positive about your attempts to take ownership - knowing that if you succeed then I'd finally have someone to nag about keeping the RoW in good order and available for me to use as and when I felt like it.

housebuyer143

I wouldn't try and sell it without getting your title changed, especially if you have built on it. If you built over it then a mortgage lender isn't likely to be happy which will affect your buyers. 
The fact that you put alleyway/footpath makes me think it was some kind of right of way. If you explain this to a buyer especially FTB they will likely run a mile, so best to just clear it up legally before you get started. 

Why would you think LR are not keen to change titles? If you send in the correct paperwork then they will just process it, as is their job. 

MoreToastPlease

Thank you all for the replies so far, I tried to keep it brief to start with but can provide more information:

The pathway was around 2m wide and went down the side of my land and led to an area where there are 3 or 4 industrial units. At the other end of this area there is the primary exit/entry point which is much wider. This provides vehicle access whereas the pathway next to my land never could.

When I moved in, one end of the pathway (fronting onto my street and next to my front wall) had been gated off. This gate was locked and actually had a key snapped off in the lock. A Community Support Officer in charge told me it had been like this (unable to be used) for a couple of years due to 'antisocial behaviour'. It isn't Council owned, nobody in the area (locals or businesses) knew who was responsible and the overwhelming impression was that they would prefer it being used and maintained rather than return to being used as a pathway and past problems potentially reoccurring.

The division between my land and this pathway was a hedge, which was cut down. The end of the pathway which met the area of land with the industrial units on was blocked off by a brick wall. The far boundary was and still is a brick wall running the length of the path. The other side of that is a small patch of land. This was unused for a period of time but is now rented to run a small car sales business. We get on well with all neighbours, the planning permission to extend our curtilage was advertised in the local paper and also a notice put up by the pathway - there were no questions or objections.

One view that was put forward (this is 13/14 years ago so bear with me!) is that the boundaries of my property and those around it may have changed bit by bit informally and eventually this pathway developed or was created as a handy shortcut/means of access to the rear of the properties in my row/street. It may possibly have originally belonged toy property though I have searched and can't find any evidence of this.

The Land Registry question was purely about having the title plans redrawn to include this land at some stage. I may be getting confused with people wanting the Land Registry map changed due to change of shape on their building (extensions etc ) which would obviously be a never ending job with the amount of properties in the UK. 

Will try and put plans up to better understand the layout if required as I know it's difficult to picture things from descriptions. Thanks again to everyone for the advice so far.

MoreToastPlease

Added note - since occupying this land I've used it as a driveway for a car and further towards the rear of my property as a patio area and a base for storage (sheds etc ).

RAS

Based on previous comment, the @Land_Registry are unlikely to alter your boundaries. They might register the pathway to you but they wouldn't combine the two plots. You would then sell n the two plots. 

Hopefully they will clarify.

Land_Registry

RAS said:

Based on previous comment, the @Land_Registry are unlikely to alter your boundaries. They might register the pathway to you but they wouldn't combine the two plots. You would then sell n the two plots. 

Hopefully they will clarify.

We would only redraw boundaries if there was sufficient reason to do so. That's not the case here as you are not suggesting there was any error re conveyancing/original registration but are seeking to occupy and claim unregistered land adjoining your property.
If you are looking to sell it is very likely that the buyer will ask you to confirm how you can include the extra land as not registered. That can go one of two ways usually and the first is asking you to register your claim, get a possessory title for the extra land and then they buy the two titles.
They may, and this really depends on their mortgage lender/conveyancer, complete and look to register the additional land for themselves after completing their purchase - unusual if a mortgage involved but possible.
I suspect, if you have satisfied the legal requirements re such a claim, that you will need to apply to register the claim and then request that it is expedited once you have a confirmed buyer. Expedition will shorten the wait time but there is a process to follow re such applications to register claims.
Adverse possession of (1) unregistered land and (2) registered land where a right to be registered was acquired before 13 October 2003 (PG5) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
1. Consideration of the facts as presented; 2. Site visit/survey to see what the reality is on the ground; and 3. Wider checks including notifying adjoining land/property owners to see if they consent/object for any reason(s)
So to meet the registration requirements and to get possessory title you need to pass all 3 stages and that will generally take at least 10-12 weeks minimum in an expedited scenario as stages 2 and 3 are reliant on third parties to complete.
So speak to your conveyancer to explain  the position re the extra land and ask them to confirm if you have a legal claim. Then apply to register, and if a buyer is confirmed, request expedition

user1977

MoreToastPlease said:

Added note - since occupying this land I've used it as a driveway for a car and further towards the rear of my property as a patio area and a base for storage (sheds etc ).

So in worst case scenario, you/your buyer loses the driveway and sheds etc.

Section62

MoreToastPlease said:

The pathway was around 2m wide and went down the side of my land and led to an area where there are 3 or 4 industrial units. At the other end of this area there is the primary exit/entry point which is much wider. This provides vehicle access whereas the pathway next to my land never could.

2m is enough for vehicular access - it is around 6'6" which is one of the standard widths used for width restrictions on public roads and is just about enough to get a Transit van through. (although personally I wouldn't drive a Transit down a 2m alleyway)

MoreToastPlease said:

When I moved in, one end of the pathway (fronting onto my street and next to my front wall) had been gated off. This gate was locked and actually had a key snapped off in the lock. A Community Support Officer in charge told me it had been like this (unable to be used) for a couple of years due to 'antisocial behaviour'. It isn't Council owned, nobody in the area (locals or businesses) knew who was responsible and the overwhelming impression was that they would prefer it being used and maintained rather than return to being used as a pathway and past problems potentially reoccurring.

Sounds more and more like a situation where a gating order may have been involved.  They exist due to the problem of the landowner being unknown or uncontactable - if there is an identifiable owner then the council would leave it up to them to secure their property (but may offer 'encouragement' in the form of warnings about prosecution for anything like litter/flytipped waste which might be actionable)

MoreToastPlease said:

The division between my land and this pathway was a hedge, which was cut down. The end of the pathway which met the area of land with the industrial units on was blocked off by a brick wall. The far boundary was and still is a brick wall running the length of the path. The other side of that is a small patch of land. This was unused for a period of time but is now rented to run a small car sales business. We get on well with all neighbours, the planning permission to extend our curtilage was advertised in the local paper and also a notice put up by the pathway - there were no questions or objections.

This all sounds very typical of how these shared alleyways end up - some people grab the land and fence/wall it off, others don't do anything about it.  So long as everyone is happy with the status quo then it is all good.

MoreToastPlease said:

One view that was put forward (this is 13/14 years ago so bear with me!) is that the boundaries of my property and those around it may have changed bit by bit informally and eventually this pathway developed or was created as a handy shortcut/means of access to the rear of the properties in my row/street. It may possibly have originally belonged toy property though I have searched and can't find any evidence of this.

Your situation might be different, but typically this kind of shared alleyway was provided by the developer/builder whent he properties were originally built.  It stems from a time where there were some things (like deliveries and the rubbish, and blue-collar husbands coming home from work) that would go in/out through the back door and never the front.  Terrace-type properties were provided with a means of access at the rear - typically with a path that was just passable by the smaller vehicles that were the norm at the time.  Later in the period the alley would be wide enough to easily access car garages at the back of the houses.

Because the alleyway was shared the developer/builder typically retained ownership, which is fine until they no longer existed.  Alternatively, sometimes the land was portioned up and sold with each house.  But either way, each of the properties with such a rear access would be granted a RoW over (at least) the length from the road to their boundary.  Sometimes there were two or more access points from the road (forming a 'U' or 'E' pattern) in which case the RoW often extends over the entire length.

The potential issue for you is that if this is how this alleyway came into being, if any of the properties that had RoW still have that RoW they could (in theory) demand the owner restores the RoW to a condition so it can be used.  So you (or your buyer) would want to ensure that there were no extant RoW's over the land you want to claim ownership of (and eventually sell).  Done properly, that would involve checking the deeds of all the properties that could gain access to make sure there is nothing suggesting a RoW over this land.  Brick walls and planning consents don't extinguish RoW's, so the 'could' has to be viewed in the widest contect possible.

Although everything is fine now, there is no control over who may buy one of the properties in the future, and if someone moves in and sees a benefit (practical or financial) of opening up a rear access then there could be problems.

MoreToastPlease

Again, thank you for your comments and advice.

It sounds like the next logical step would be to apply for possessory title for the unregistered land and then look to sell the 2 separate plots. I looked into this when the wait period was over (possibly last year) and am vaguely familiar with the guidance - I just should have done it then!

I'm hoping that the planning application to extend my curtilage back in 2011 plus photos of the use of the land since occupying it would be proof of the intent to possess the land throughout the wait period?

I am aware that I could do nothing, notify any potential buyers about the situation and leave it to them - they can continue the adverse possession and they inherit my 13/14 years of AP so could apply for Possessory Title when they wish. But obviously this would be a bargaining tool to pay less for our land/property.

My property/land is mortgage free so as such I don't have anyone to consult about this - hence posting on here before considering taking any legal advice. I have to say the advice on here within a few hours has been excellent.