Gas leak, gas inlet capped - trace and fix?

JohnTravoltage

Had a smart meter installed, and during the installation the gas supplier's engineer said they see a pressure drop and capped the gas and left saying we'll have to get a gas safe engineer to check and uncap. 

Gas safety engineer came in and said he just does annual safety check and can't deal with gas leaks, and said I'll need to 'look around' for a gas safe engineer who can do trace and fix. 

I have a few questions:

1. How to go about finding one that will do this?

2. Any suggestions on how much this is likely to cost? to trace and fix and get the gas supply restored?

3. I have landlord insurance which seems to cover 'power failure' due to gas shutdown. Is it worth going with this or do it myself and keep my NCD? 

( I say 'seems' because the home emergency cover summary says it covers 'power supply failure' where there is a failure of the property's domestic electricity and domestic gas BUT under the restrictions it also says I'm not covered for claims relating to failure of mains supply if there's a habitable area in the property where electricity and/or gas supply is still fully or partially working. Now this 'and/or' sounds like a conveniently worded statement. The gas is fully shut, but the electricity is fully working. Since the gas is turned off, the gas hob and boiler for hot water are out of action. So am I covered?)

4. From the wording of my insurance cover above and any experience with such claims - any guidance on whether I'd be covered?

Bookworm105

obviously you need a gas safe person, I suspect the previous just did not want the work. The next one you contact may want it. There is no distinction within gas safe registration over whether you can or can't find leaks 

as for your insurance, we cannot read your policy so how can we comment on the chance of you claiming 

JohnTravoltage

Bookworm105 said:

as for your insurance, we cannot read your policy so how can we comment on the chance of you claiming 

Have updated my post with details of the policy

BarelySentientAI

JohnTravoltage said:

3. I have landlord insurance which seems to cover 'power failure' due to gas shutdown. Is it worth going with this or do it myself and keep my NCD? 

( I say 'seems' because the home emergency cover summary says it covers 'power supply failure' where there is a failure of the property's domestic electricity and domestic gas BUT under the restrictions it also says I'm not covered for claims relating to failure of mains supply if there's a habitable area in the property where electricity and/or gas supply is still fully or partially working. Now this 'and/or' sounds like a conveniently worded statement. The gas is fully shut, but the electricity is fully working. Since the gas is turned off, the gas hob and boiler for hot water are out of action. So am I covered?)

4. From the wording of my insurance cover above and any experience with such claims - any guidance on whether I'd be covered?

Probably not covered.

That section of policy appears designed to cover power cuts from external problems or gas network outages, not the property being isolated for safety reasons.

It's not a "conveniently worded statement", it's telling you specifically what is and is not included.

You have not had a power supply failure.

JohnTravoltage

Probably not covered.

That section of policy appears designed to cover power cuts from external problems or gas network outages, not the property being isolated for safety reasons.

It's not a "conveniently worded statement", it's telling you specifically what is and is not included.

You have not had a power supply failure.

But surely a safety shutdown caused by a gas leak would still qualify as an emergency and a power failure?

I was thinking the wording was convenient only to the extent that the insurer might use the 'and/or' to argue that  as long as one of the two is working, it's not a power supply failure. 

Shutdown due to gas safety leak not being covered feels unfair 

BarelySentientAI

JohnTravoltage said:

Probably not covered.

That section of policy appears designed to cover power cuts from external problems or gas network outages, not the property being isolated for safety reasons.

It's not a "conveniently worded statement", it's telling you specifically what is and is not included.

You have not had a power supply failure.

But surely a safety shutdown caused by a gas leak would still qualify as an emergency and a power failure?

I was thinking the wording was convenient only to the extent that the insurer might use the 'and/or' to argue that  as long as one of the two is working, it's not a power supply failure. 

Shutdown due to gas safety leak not being covered feels unfair 

Deliberate shutdowns are not failures in the insurance world.

If you post the exact wording, I might be able to comment better, but I can't see any way that clause covers you with what you have said.

Mr.Generous

The gas tight (drop) test is done every year as part of your gas safety certificate. The most likely place for a leak is at an appliance, or where pipes have been knocked. Every gas appliance has an isolator so a gas man will isolate everything and check for a leak, then open each item until he sees a drop, its simple, and fixing it is usually also simple They use leak detection spray. My guess would be £100 tops, but who knows? If you have gas heaters in every room and loads of underfloor pipework it could be a pain. Typical home with a boiler and one other appliance (hob or fire) pretty straightforward.

As a landlord every gas fire or hob I came upon was replaced by electric, makes it much easier.

JohnTravoltage

Mr.Generous said:

The gas tight (drop) test is done every year as part of your gas safety certificate.
...

If you have gas heaters in every room and loads of underfloor pipework it could be a pain. Typical home with a boiler and one other appliance (hob or fire) pretty straightforward.

The gas safety check (& boiler service) was done barely a month ago and passed. The engineer who did this (same guy who said he can't do trace and fix and I need to look for a different type of a gas safe engineer)  marked the gas tight check as 'NA' and insists it's not a mandatory part of the safety test. Do I have any recourse against him at all? 


I have gas heaters in every room and (I suspect) loads of underfloor pipework (though I hope it's just going up through the roof directly into the radiator in the room above and not routed all around the floor) 

JohnTravoltage

BarelySentientAI said:

If you post the exact wording, I might be able to comment better, but I can't see any way that clause covers you with what you have said.

 It's pretty much what I summarised above but here's the wording FWIF:

What is insured:
Power Supply Failure
- Failure of your let property's domestic electricity, or domestic gas supply

Restrictions on cover:
Power supply failure
- not covered claims relating to a failure of the mains supply or if you and/or your tenant(s) have a habitable area in the let property, where the electricity and/or gas supply is still fully or partially working.  

Mr.Generous

JohnTravoltage said:

Mr.Generous said:

The gas tight (drop) test is done every year as part of your gas safety certificate.
...

If you have gas heaters in every room and loads of underfloor pipework it could be a pain. Typical home with a boiler and one other appliance (hob or fire) pretty straightforward.

The gas safety check (& boiler service) was done barely a month ago and passed. The engineer who did this (same guy who said he can't do trace and fix and I need to look for a different type of a gas safe engineer)  marked the gas tight check as 'NA' and insists it's not a mandatory part of the safety test. Do I have any recourse against him at all? 


I have gas heaters in every room and (I suspect) loads of underfloor pipework (though I hope it's just going up through the roof directly into the radiator in the room above and not routed all around the floor) 

You must be joking. So a gas leak of highly explosive gas into the property isn't a safety concern? Of course its part of the test.

Agghhh - Well it has been on every test I've had - but it's not a legal requirement!! It's highly recommended by HSE and gas safe, but not a requirement. Every gas engineer I've ever employed has tested for gas tight, for rentals and when renovating a property. Definately find a new gas engineer.

JohnTravoltage

Weekend update on this fun story:

Gas engineer (different one) came in, did his trace and found the issue to be a leak inside the boiler. Removed cap, turned off gas supply only to boiler and got gas hob working again. So at least the kitchen is in action now. 

As for the 20-year-old boiler, here's what he's suggested:

Option 1 -  Replace the valve - £700-800 incl labour and VAT
Option 2 -  Replace boiler - £3000 incl labour and VAT for a 'mid-range' boiler with 5Y warranty 

But then since I have a new boiler I don't want the old water from the radiators circulating through it and damaging it, so Option 2 comes with a power flush of the heating system 'strongly recommended' at £500 incl labour and VAT

And then again, because it's now apparently the rule when fitting new boilers, it's 'strongly recommended' that the radiator valves be changed to thermostatic valves. So Option 2 also comes with a further cost of £500 for this.

So all said, I'm looking at:

Option 1 for £700-800 but with no guarantee that something else won't break next year for another similar amount 

OR

Option 2 for £4000 with 5Y warranty on the boiler (though I must say, with the way these strongly recommended bits and bobs popped out along with the boiler quote, I'm apprehensive we may discover other 'must do'/'strongly recommended' pieces of work once we're in the middle of the boiler change) 

I haven't got a second opinion/quote from another gas engineer yet (and I intend to do that), but for anyone with any experience or knowledge in this matter - what would you do/recommend?

Also, are there perhaps other options that I may be overlooking here?