Mis-sold Debt Between 2 Companies, That Are Now Pursuing My Client To Pay

JustJinny

I need advice/opinions on Mis-Sold Debt between 2 companies, as a result of a company admin error, that affects a third party (my Client).

DETAILS: 
I am a Volunteer Community Support Worker - helping a vulnerable adult in the Community.

My Client had a BT account in 2021, which they ended in 2022, when they moved to Sky.  Sky paid out the Contract (BT emailed them to tell them that the other company was dealing with them), they returned all the equipment, and got email confirmation that they owed no fees for ending the contract, and there was no money owed.  They still have that email.

In late May 2024 (date is important!) They got a Solicitor Letter, mentioning Debt owed to a company that they'd never heard of.  They thought it was a scam, and put it aside, where it stayed.

Then in late June 2024, they recieved a Court Order from CNBC, about this Debt, and they immediately contacted me (a Volunteer Community Support Worker) and I asked if they had got anything about it before.  They pulled out the letter, and we looked into it, and I discovered that both said companys are legit. So we phoned the Solicitor, as it requested. 

We discovered it was a debt sold by BT for the contract in 2021, to a Debt Collections Agency, and then they sat on it until the BT Account had been archived, making it near on impossible to find out anything about it, or correct any issues.

Thankfully, I kept pushing, and we discovered it was all an Admin error.  The debt isn't real.  BUT due to BT archiving the account it was really hard to get things corrected their end, so we lodged a complaint (we have 2 running at BT now, in relations to this matter), and in the interim, the chap adjusted the amount on their systems, of the now sold on debt, by all he could, and added a note to the system, we believe mentioning the error.  As the account is now archived though, another Operator at a later date, said he can't open the notes.

We informed the other Solicitor, as they requested, and they said they'd speak to their Client - Lowell Portfolio I Ltd.  We made it clear we dispute the Debt.

Next, in very late June, my Client received a CBNC Court Order, and a Directions Questionnaire from the Court.  We filled it out and sent it back. It was signed - but we got a message saying the form was unsigned which we thought was weird.  We contacted the Court, and was told to re-send it to an email address, which we did.  Making clear that we still dispute the Debt.

It went quiet for a bit and in July we got an email back saying the Defence Document was unsigned, and couldn't be used - so we rang again.... This time we were told that the Defence was to have been submitted before the Court Order and the Directions Questionnaire was sent out.  Which confused us both.  My Client and I searched everything we had about this case, and we found nothing - so again, phoned the Court back.

This is a side line issue - but strange none the less! - On 11th April, a Defence, unsigned, was submitted "from [my Client]"! .  We didn't - as we didn't know about the case then! .. We have no idea what it says.  We asked but we were told that we are not allowed a copy without paying £22 for it - weirdly - and not only that, but it will take 10 working weeks to get!.... except..... a) My Client doesn't have that money to spare - and b) we have been given a Mediation Hearing in early Sept 2024, so we have no way of knowing what's been said before the Mediation Hearing!

Regarding the Mediation  - My Client asked if a Representative could speak with them, and we were told no. We also sent over evidence, for the Mediator to review, as instructed on an Email from the Court. The documents sent, shows there is no debt with BT (they have since ammended their accounts to zero balance - but because the account has been archived, they can only do it, by forcing a fake payment, so it reads "this bill has been paid"), and we sent all the original emails, and so forth too - but they sent it back saying that the Mediator will NOT consider, or review any Evidence, as that is for the Judge to do.....Errrrr..... But without the Evidence - what is there to mediate? It would be based on Hearsay, not proof? The fact is, that the Debt never existed - it was an admin error - and the case SHOULD be between the Debt Collector and BT only.

The Defence was submitted over a month before I was even aware of anything, it is a mystery, and an entirely seperate issue. Without seeing it - We've no idea what it's claiming, but I nor my Client, have any record of it. The Court phone guy said of it "they did you a favour by doing it - because it granted you more time", and told us that it was sent by post, but they definitely bought us time... that we were unaware of needing!... and according to the Archive timing,.... it seems that it was just enough time, to get to the date, that BT had archived the Account. But anyway - that's a separate issue.

So now we have to go to Mediation, and likely Court - and I don't know what to do for the best for my Client as this is Litigation Law, and not an area I'm too familiar with.

Because of that, we have phoned the Law Society and got numbers of Solicitors and Legal Aid people - and they've all said that they aren't able to help, as its too low an amount of money - that doesn't exist.

We phoned Debt Charities, who've refused us, as they say that there is no debt - which is correct.

We phoned Law Centres. It's either not their area of Law, or my Client is out of their Catchment Area.

We have phoned the Citizen's Advice - again, not helpful. They said to call Support Through Court - who couldn't help, only told us to go to Mediation, which obviously we are doing, but wanted advice so I don't mess up for my Client.

I don't know who to call to help me. My Client doesn't owe the money - and doesn't have a debt to BT.... I am not sure of the legalities when it goes to a third party. This is all just one big mess up by BT, and I'm worried my Client is going to be charged, if a Judge were to rule against them, for any reason, even though they have the proof of the no money owed to BT... but the Debt company will claim, that the Debt is to them now, not BT.

Can anyone advise me about this? Or has anyone been through this, and can share their experience?

Thanks in advance.

fatbelly

Mediation is a waste of time. Do it anyway but the next stage in the court process is a hearing

As defendant this will be your local court. Insist on it being face to face

Unless the other side drops the claim, go to the hearing with your evidence.

I presume this is a debt buyer like Lowell or Cabot or PRA or Capquest. They leave it till the last minute to issue a notice of discontinuence. You have to keep going till they do.

Okell

I'm probably wrong but I thought debts that had been "sold" could only legally be enforced by the purchaser if the debt had been formally assigned - which involves notifying the debtor of the assignment.

The debtor needs to be formally notified when the original creditor assigns a debt otherwise the debtor would never know who they owe the money to.

As I say - I may be wrong

Jenni_D

My understanding is the same ... but I also may be wrong. 🤷‍♀️

Arunmor

Purely out of interest, how much are they pursuing you for?

Okell

Jenni_D said:

My understanding is the same ... but I also may be wrong. 🤷‍♀️

This is the sort of issue that crops up on Legal Beagles and Consumer Action Group forums all the time.  They both have regular contributors who seem to know this sort of stuff inside out - and can point to the relevant legislation and case law.

If I were @JustJinny I'd try my luck on one of those forums

HillStreetBlues

Have you contacted Sky to confirm the paid all fees? Better to get it in writing as would form part of your defence if it goes to court which I personally doubt.

JustJinny

fatbelly said:

Mediation is a waste of time. Do it anyway but the next stage in the court process is a hearing

As defendant this will be your local court. Insist on it being face to face

Unless the other side drops the claim, go to the hearing with your evidence.

I presume this is a debt buyer like Lowell or Cabot or PRA or Capquest. They leave it till the last minute to issue a notice of discontinuence. You have to keep going till they do.

Yes, it is Lowell Portfolio I Ltd 

JustJinny

Arunmor said:

Purely out of interest, how much are they pursuing you for?

They were sold the debt for £600 .... He debt agency added on their fees, so they are after  £740 odd... However -  then BT admitted their Admin error and adjusted what they could to show £406. ... and refused to let the debt agency know, as its now a legal case!  ....  BT then got what access they could to the archived account,, and adjusted it, so at BT it's now zero. ... again - they refuse to notify the debt company! ... they sent my client the bill showing zero and saying she owes nothing, but also previously, we sent info from 2022 from BT to the Court, saying she owes nothing, but the Court sent it back saying they won't look at it... soooooooo yeah.  .... here we are. And no solicitor will touch us, as they say under £500 is too little money for them to bother with.  

JustJinny

HillStreetBlues said:

Have you contacted Sky to confirm the paid all fees? Better to get it in writing as would form part of your defence if it goes to court which I personally doubt.

Sky won't help, as their service didn't work in her area either, so they shut it after 4 days, and archived the account. We have an email from BT saying Sky has taken over, and there are no fees to pay. We submitted it to Court, but it was returned to us, saying only a Judge needs it.

fatbelly

I f you stand up to Lowell they will give up on cost-effective grounds. You say it stands at £740 after costs.

They only bought it for less than £100 so they don't want a long drawn-out argument