Drowning in (son's) debt - getting desperate

Sea_Shell

devondiver said:

Sea_Shell said:

So, to summarise, you have two issues here.

• The £21,000 of debt that is in your name, which son was supposed to be paying you back at £400-£500 a month.
• And then his own debts of £12,500 (and counting?)

Plus of course the 30k to my brother.

Sea_Shell said:

Can you afford your debt repayments if he is unable to pay you back, or cover the interest?   
Even if he defaults on his own debt, will he be able to budget to live without any further credit from anywhere, including you, with the money saved in interest payments.

Theoretically - yes to both. But that's what we need to work on.

Sea_Shell said:

I hope he does agree to read this thread, and take all the comments on board, as he shouldn't really be still be dependent on you financially in his 40's.

I've seen first hand what happens when well meaning parents give too much, and leave themselves in a vulnerable position, whilst adult children don't stand on their own two feet.  

Yes, I do understand. But as noted above - it has really been all about protecting the grandkids. 

That's admirable, to a point.

I just hope that you don't find yourself in a situation where you might need (to borrow) money for your own needs that won't now be available to you, because you're maxed out.

Maybe consider paying down your debt with your savings, rather than paying interest.  Anything he pays you back is a bonus, but not guaranteed.

devondiver

Sea_Shell said:

devondiver said:

Sea_Shell said:

So, to summarise, you have two issues here.

• The £21,000 of debt that is in your name, which son was supposed to be paying you back at £400-£500 a month.
• And then his own debts of £12,500 (and counting?)

Plus of course the 30k to my brother.

Sea_Shell said:

Can you afford your debt repayments if he is unable to pay you back, or cover the interest?   
Even if he defaults on his own debt, will he be able to budget to live without any further credit from anywhere, including you, with the money saved in interest payments.

Theoretically - yes to both. But that's what we need to work on.

Sea_Shell said:

I hope he does agree to read this thread, and take all the comments on board, as he shouldn't really be still be dependent on you financially in his 40's.

I've seen first hand what happens when well meaning parents give too much, and leave themselves in a vulnerable position, whilst adult children don't stand on their own two feet.  

Yes, I do understand. But as noted above - it has really been all about protecting the grandkids. 

I just hope that you don't find yourself in a situation where you might need (to borrow) money for your own needs that won't now be available to you, because you're maxed out.

Can but hope, I suppose. But then - I am an optimist. 

Sea_Shell said:

devondiver said:

Sea_Shell said:

So, to summarise, you have two issues here.

• The £21,000 of debt that is in your name, which son was supposed to be paying you back at £400-£500 a month.
• And then his own debts of £12,500 (and counting?)

Plus of course the 30k to my brother.

Sea_Shell said:

Can you afford your debt repayments if he is unable to pay you back, or cover the interest?   
Even if he defaults on his own debt, will he be able to budget to live without any further credit from anywhere, including you, with the money saved in interest payments.

Theoretically - yes to both. But that's what we need to work on.

Sea_Shell said:

I hope he does agree to read this thread, and take all the comments on board, as he shouldn't really be still be dependent on you financially in his 40's.

I've seen first hand what happens when well meaning parents give too much, and leave themselves in a vulnerable position, whilst adult children don't stand on their own two feet.  

Yes, I do understand. But as noted above - it has really been all about protecting the grandkids. 

Maybe consider paying down your debt with your savings, rather than paying interest.  Anything he pays you back is a bonus, but not guaranteed.

Hmmm. Didn't really want to go there. That's my only fallback position. I guess anything he still owes when we pop off just comes out of his share of our fortune. (Fat chance!  )

Sea_Shell

What interest rates are you currently paying on the debts in your name?

Or if any are on 0% deals, when do they expire? 

Is defaulting something you would consider for yourselves?


Also, I assume he's your only child?

devondiver

Sea_Shell said:

What interest rates are you currently paying on the debts in your name?

Or if any are on 0% deals, when do they expire? 

Is defaulting something you would consider for yourselves?


Also, I assume he's your only child?

I have been a CC tart for more years than I like to admit (thanks Martin) and make a point of never incurring interest. I constantly roll over 0% deals, the transfer fees all now being added to my son's 'account' since we ourselves have been 'debt free' for the last few years.

Not considered defaulting myself. I like having a good credit rating - never know when it might be needed - and I could at present cover the card debt we do have with savings if necessary. As it happens - the one time I talked to CAB (Pensionwise) about 8 years ago they suggested defaulting on our quite large CC debts. I preferred to pay them down slowly, partly from encashed private pension.

FWIW we have 3 children (and six grandkids!). The two younger ones are in stable relationships and seem to manage okay.

Floss

Have you had any response from your son about this thread?

devondiver

So - now that I have accrued what seems a wealth of learned opinion/advice/suggestions I need to be clear on what needs to happen now, as I am acutely conscious that every day of inaction is costing dear. Obviously my son has now to come on board and do the SOA and DMP and get his head round everything, but, in line with said advice, I am about to  suggest to him that he pre-emptively and immediately:

a) opens a new bank account which will receive his next month's pay and set up direct debits to mortgage and council tax;

b) tells Halifax and Santander that he cannot afford to keep making the overdraft and credit card payments and that these will stop now until further notice. This, if I understand correctly, will stop the interest being added and essentially freeze these accounts until a repayment plan can be agreed (which may even include parts of the debt/s being written off).

He then needs to take ownership of the situation by opening up on here, doing the SOA, doing the research and formulating a DMP which includes reducing his outgoings to at least balance his income going forward. Basically, getting the help he needs to dig himself out of the hole.

Now, I know you will say I have to STOP spoonfeeding him but I feel an urgent kick-start is now essential to get the wheels turning. So - have I got this right? What am I missing? And can we action this immediately?

devondiver

Floss said:

Have you had any response from your son about this thread?

A very good question. To which I should have an answer tomorrow. Sometime.  (He has been working long shifts over the extended weekend.)

noitsnotme

NeverendingDMP said:

devondiver said:

THX said:

devondiver said:

2021rdsunshine said:

devondiver you have done what a lot of parents would do, me included…different circumstances but this was one of reasons why my debt escalated. I don’t regret it but in hindsight maybe it was the wrong approach, I have ended up in the s…and he’s ok, completely unaware of my mess. And that’s fine, have no intentions of disclosing my mess to him. However, lesson learned, step back and make them sort their own mess if it ever happens again. Easier said than done when you are a loving supportive parent but if you don’t mind me saying it, my suggestion would be to sit down with your son , introduce him to this forum and letting him sort this the best he can. Wish you all the best 

Thank you for the caring words. Thing is, he's c.200 miles away.

That sounds like a bit of a poor excuse to me. What about the phone? Zoom? Teams? Smoke signals? Or will he just ignore you until it suits him?

I'm afraid it's not quite like that - so sorry if I gave the wrong impression. It's just not easy to sit down with him any time I like. He's either with his children or working all the overtime he can. 

I get it. Nigh on impossible to have a decent or lengthy adult conversation with children in the same building!!

The kids are in their early teens according to the first post.  It would not be difficult for a 13 year old to amuse themselves for a couple of hours while the adults have a zoom or telephone conversation once every couple of weeks.

I get that dad needs to spend time with the kids, particularly as the parenting is shared, but the conversations are important, so time needs to be found for everyone’s sake.

Sea_Shell

devondiver said:

Sea_Shell said:

What interest rates are you currently paying on the debts in your name?

Or if any are on 0% deals, when do they expire? 

Is defaulting something you would consider for yourselves?


Also, I assume he's your only child?

I have been a CC tart for more years than I like to admit (thanks Martin) and make a point of never incurring interest. I constantly roll over 0% deals, the transfer fees all now being added to my son's 'account' since we ourselves have been 'debt free' for the last few years.

Not considered defaulting myself. I like having a good credit rating - never know when it might be needed - and I could at present cover the card debt we do have with savings if necessary. As it happens - the one time I talked to CAB (Pensionwise) about 8 years ago they suggested defaulting on our quite large CC debts. I preferred to pay them down slowly, partly from encashed private pension.

FWIW we have 3 children (and six grandkids!). The two younger ones are in stable relationships and seem to manage okay.

I hope for all your sakes, you are able to get your son to take everything on board, get in a position where he doesn't need your financial help any more, and can actually pay you back.   0% deals are great, whilst they last, but £21k is quite a lot to keep shuffling around.   As even at ~3% arrangement fee, that's another £630 being added to his "account" each time.

But at least you have the ability to pay it all off, if necessary.

I know it's not really any of the other 2 adult children's business, but are they aware of the situation?    It could get awkward in the future, if you leave yourselves short and have to ask them for help, when you've been giving it all away.  Or, they are not able to manage quite as well as you think, and they too ask for some financial help with something, and you are unable to.

We've read too many threads on how money has a nasty habit of straining relationships. 

Kim_13

I suspect that while he has these debts, he will not be able to make much of a dent into the money he owes to you and his uncle - the banks will expect to be paid before he pays debt on cards that are not in his name.

Once he no longer has a maintenance obligation this should be doable though - as he’s used to living without this money anyway.