Martin's suggestion for winter fuel allowance

BarelySentientAI

Brian3357 said:

It might be helpful for people with strong views to read what charities like Age concern think with their experience 

I think most of us are well aware what single issue advocacy groups and charities will think regarding most topics.

Exodi

Brian3357 said:

I think we also need to make a stand on WFA because the government could be proposing far worse measures in October and they need to know that targetting those without a loud political voice, will challenge their decisions and not buy the nonsense that it is all down to the outgoing government! It isn't.

Oh yes, baby boomers - the generation which has definitely had no influence on policy.

Characterising probably the most influential generation ever as not having 'a loud political voice' at the age where they also have the highest voter turnout just makes you look daft. I don't know why people waste their time debating you.

BarelySentientAI said:

Brian3357 said:

It might be helpful for people with strong views to read what charities like Age concern think with their experience 

I think most of us are well aware what single issue advocacy groups and charities will think regarding most topics.

It's interesting because Brian has strong views that the pay offer to Junior Doctors was too much, yet if he read the BMA's Junior Doctors Committee's stance on it, he'd see they say:

“This offer does not go all the way to restoring the pay lost by junior doctors over the last decade and a half.

This offer, combined with the recommendation of the pay review body today, changes the current trajectory of our pay, even though there is further to go yet."

I trust Brian will find it helpful to read what unions like the BMA and ASLEF have to say on the matter, and armed with this newfound knowledge will inevitably change his view and conclude that the pay offers weren't enough.

Or, might he suggest that obviously bodies that represent certain groups of people will have a bias towards the group of people they represent?

Worriedpensioner

I am confused as to why Martin, and the government, are choosing Band D as the Band to use. Surely everyone should be included?  There are many pensioners who have worked hard all their lives, never claimed any benefit yet live in Band E-H homes, that they works their socks off to buy, yet as time passes most, through no fault of their own, end up single or will end up single. Money is tight at the moment and to move they may be too old now, too ill unable to find something suitable as there is little out there, yet somehow may have to find the 25% council tax discount; £300 for the fuel bill and now may even making pensions loose their pensions, pensions many rely on to get them by?  Surely everyone is entitled to their pension after years of paying in and relying on it?  It makes my heart break what’s currently happening. I only hope the rumours of what’s coming arnt entirely true. If they are then please look after ALL pensioners. You don’t know what many have been through and are going through and may go through going forward in the winter of their lives.  Let them have some pleasure after 40+ years of working and paying taxes. 

elsien

No-one has chosen any band as yet. 

This is all speculative as the decision is being based on pension credit at the moment, and the suggestions you mention may well not happen. 

Also have no idea what you are referring to when you talk about people losing their pensions? I don’t know what you’ve been reading (daily mail?) but there is a lot of speculation out there based on very little indeed. 

Kim_13

(Removed by Forum Team)

One of our near neighbours was widowed early in the Summer. She lives in a Band E house. It was owned with her husband but as both of them had children from earlier relationships, his will left her a life interest in his half of the property, and his share itself to his children. She had it valued hoping that she could downsize to a bungalow, but the house isn’t worth enough to allow her to buy somewhere else on half of the value.

She is trapped - a pensioner can hardly expect to get a mortgage. Anyone renting runs the risk of their LL wanting to sell, and rents increasing faster than their income. When you are a pensioner with limited or no means to increase your income it’s generally not the time to be losing the security of having a roof over your head that cannot be taken from you.

There are also legal fees, stamp duty depending on location (£250,000 will be enough for a small property in some areas, but not others) and moving costs to factor in. It isn’t a magic wand and if someone is struggling to afford the bills, I would suggest they don’t have the money for these upfront costs lying around.

Martin has called it an imperfect proxy because that’s exactly what it is - there are well off people in bands A-D, and people who are struggling in Band E or above. He recognises the need to something quickly (the price cap rises in less than a month), and probably chose it as an opening suggestion as it had relatively recently been used for a Cost of Living payment. I would personally give it to anyone with an income that would be eligible for child benefit, although I recognise that that system isn’t perfect as it stands in that it also penalises those who have been left on their own.

FlorayG

Please can someone explain what this thread is about? Band D used for what? I think I've missed something

Exodi

FlorayG said:

Please can someone explain what this thread is about? Band D used for what? I think I've missed something

I don't know how much you know so I'll give all the background

Labour recently announced they were changing the Winter Fuel Allowance payments (typically £200-300 per year currently given to all pensioners) to this year being only people in receipt of Pension Credit (e.g if your income is less than about £11.3k per year). The idea being that it wasn't great for a cash strapped government to be paying several hundred pounds to every pensioner, including those who might live in mansions or own yachts. While many pensioners are poor, many more are not.

There has been a lot of complaints from pensioners (as could be expected), as around ~90% would no longer receive the £200 - £300 payment every year as their income was not low enough to be eligible for pension credit. There has also been a ton of scaremongering on social media, which has left easily influenced people like the OP now scared that 'Labour is coming for their pensions'. Sorry back on topic, people began framing the scenario that someone earning £11.4k per year would not be entitled to pension credit, would not receive the WFA, at a time where the price cap is about to increase 10%. Much of the debate is focused on people just over the pension credit threshold (and of course wealthier pensioners are all too happy to pretend they give a monkeys about poorer pensioners and champion the change being scrapped).

Martin Lewis suggested (https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2024/07/eligibility-changes-winter-fuel-payment/ ) changing the means testing criteria from receipt of pension credit to the council tax band you were in - the idea being if you live in a Band A - D house, you'd receive Winter Fuel Allowance, if you lived in a house Band E or above, you wouldn't. Unfortunately there's also been a lot of complaining about this idea, particularly the reasons that many pensioners are asset rich/cash poor, or that someone who owns a band D property would receive it, but someone paying rent on a band E would not. To be fair, he accepted it wasn't a perfect solution either.

There's a long thread running about it: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6549649/martins-suggestion-for-winter-fuel-allowance/p1

Worriedpensioner

Thank you everyone. Appreciated all the comments. 

FlorayG

Thanks @Exodi
I think there's no way for it to be made 'fair', that's the reason it was given to all pensioners in the first place.
Maybe the fairest way would be to give it to any pensioner who applies for it - those who don't need it, some will apply but most won't

Marcon

FlorayG said:

Thanks @Exodi
I think there's no way for it to be made 'fair', that's the reason it was given to all pensioners in the first place.
Maybe the fairest way would be to give it to any pensioner who applies for it - those who don't need it, some will apply but most won't

A recipe for admin chaos - and you can bet your life that those who need it most won't apply. Just look at the number of people eligible for pension credit who are missing out...