Used charge back. Mistake?

Leonberger

I could use some advice on what is likely to happen here. I’ll try and make it short. 

I bought a used car in June. Exactly 36 days later the engine management light came on. Likely blown turbo or potentially some sort of engine leak. Car also had other issues not noted on sale when car was lifted (corrosion etc) Huge costs involved in diagnosing problem hence not wanting to sink more money into this. I’m set to have lost around £4000 if I ‘loose’ and can probably only get £700 scrap for the car.

I spoke to consumer rights who tell me by law I am entitled to repair or replacement within 6 months based on the fact I have rights as I bought from a dealer not a private individual. The car must be fit for purpose which it is not as it’s currently worth scrap. 

Contacted dealer. No response other than ‘f off’ 
Sent recorded letter x2 offering dealer to repair or at least check the car out to ensure that the car was fit for sale when sold. I was happy for any independent inspection. No reply.  Dealer then changed website name, claimed they couldn’t understand me as they were not English, changed to another business altogether and blocked contact. Alongside this dealer gets lots of bad reviews from others in similar situations, broken cars and being ignored.

Contacted trading standards who advised to do a bank charge back, which I did. I provided all evidence of the state of the car, receipts from 2 garages, all communication to seller (recorded and signed for delivery as well as messages) as well as the bad reviews and evidence the website had changed from purchase.

I have now received the money but was told to keep it until the case is closed as the dealer can dispute it (fine, as I said I just wanted the thing repaired or at least acknowledgement. Even an offer to contribute but nothing) 

Now I have the money but I also have the car. Do I wait for the chargeback to complete and then return it? Or can she dispute it after this. The last thing I need is for her to have the car and the money and then do another vanishing act. I would gladly return the car but can’t as it won’t drive. 

Do I let her repair it now if she comes back with that or is it too far down the line?
How long does the seller have to dispute my claim and what evidence does she require to dispute?

If the chargeback fails what are my chances in court. Am I likley to just be putting more money into a sinking ship? I know the court costs will be a few hundred but people have suggested she probably won’t pay anyway. 

Im worried about having the money and the car, it does feel wrong but she hasn’t offered to collect it at any point. Is it on me to get it to her? She isnt exactly a nice person and she knows where I live…

Thanks for getting to the end!

powerful_Rogue

Leonberger said:

I could use some advice on what is likely to happen here. I’ll try and make it short. 

I bought a used car in June. Exactly 36 days later the engine management light came on. Likely blown turbo or potentially some sort of engine leak. Car also had other issues not noted on sale when car was lifted (corrosion etc) Huge costs involved in diagnosing problem hence not wanting to sink more money into this. I’m set to have lost around £4000 if I ‘loose’ and can probably only get £700 scrap for the car.

I spoke to consumer rights who tell me by law I am entitled to repair or replacement within 6 months based on the fact I have rights as I bought from a dealer not a private individual. The car must be fit for purpose which it is not as it’s currently worth scrap. 

Contacted dealer. No response other than ‘f off’ 
Sent recorded letter x2 offering dealer to repair or at least check the car out to ensure that the car was fit for sale when sold. I was happy for any independent inspection. No reply.  Dealer then changed website name, claimed they couldn’t understand me as they were not English, changed to another business altogether and blocked contact. Alongside this dealer gets lots of bad reviews from others in similar situations, broken cars and being ignored.

Contacted trading standards who advised to do a bank charge back, which I did. I provided all evidence of the state of the car, receipts from 2 garages, all communication to seller (recorded and signed for delivery as well as messages) as well as the bad reviews and evidence the website had changed from purchase.

I have now received the money but was told to keep it until the case is closed as the dealer can dispute it (fine, as I said I just wanted the thing repaired or at least acknowledgement. Even an offer to contribute but nothing) 

Now I have the money but I also have the car. Do I wait for the chargeback to complete and then return it? Or can she dispute it after this. The last thing I need is for her to have the car and the money and then do another vanishing act. I would gladly return the car but can’t as it won’t drive. 

Do I let her repair it now if she comes back with that or is it too far down the line?
How long does the seller have to dispute my claim and what evidence does she require to dispute?

If the chargeback fails what are my chances in court. Am I likley to just be putting more money into a sinking ship? I know the court costs will be a few hundred but people have suggested she probably won’t pay anyway. 

Im worried about having the money and the car, it does feel wrong but she hasn’t offered to collect it at any point. Is it on me to get it to her? She isnt exactly a nice person and she knows where I live…

Thanks for getting to the end!

How old was the car, How many miles on the clock and the price paid?

When the issue happened, did you contact the retailer first before sending letters?

A chargeback can be reversed, also the retailer can issue a court claim.

born_again

Leonberger said:

I could use some advice on what is likely to happen here. I’ll try and make it short. 

I bought a used car in June. Exactly 36 days later the engine management light came on. Likely blown turbo or potentially some sort of engine leak. Car also had other issues not noted on sale when car was lifted (corrosion etc) Huge costs involved in diagnosing problem hence not wanting to sink more money into this. I’m set to have lost around £4000 if I ‘loose’ and can probably only get £700 scrap for the car.

I spoke to consumer rights who tell me by law I am entitled to repair or replacement within 6 months based on the fact I have rights as I bought from a dealer not a private individual. The car must be fit for purpose which it is not as it’s currently worth scrap. 

Contacted dealer. No response other than ‘f off’ 
Sent recorded letter x2 offering dealer to repair or at least check the car out to ensure that the car was fit for sale when sold. I was happy for any independent inspection. No reply.  Dealer then changed website name, claimed they couldn’t understand me as they were not English, changed to another business altogether and blocked contact. Alongside this dealer gets lots of bad reviews from others in similar situations, broken cars and being ignored.

Contacted trading standards who advised to do a bank charge back, which I did. I provided all evidence of the state of the car, receipts from 2 garages, all communication to seller (recorded and signed for delivery as well as messages) as well as the bad reviews and evidence the website had changed from purchase.

I have now received the money but was told to keep it until the case is closed as the dealer can dispute it (fine, as I said I just wanted the thing repaired or at least acknowledgement. Even an offer to contribute but nothing) 

Now I have the money but I also have the car. Do I wait for the chargeback to complete and then return it? Or can she dispute it after this. The last thing I need is for her to have the car and the money and then do another vanishing act. I would gladly return the car but can’t as it won’t drive. 

Do I let her repair it now if she comes back with that or is it too far down the line?
How long does the seller have to dispute my claim and what evidence does she require to dispute?

If the chargeback fails what are my chances in court. Am I likley to just be putting more money into a sinking ship? I know the court costs will be a few hundred but people have suggested she probably won’t pay anyway. 

Im worried about having the money and the car, it does feel wrong but she hasn’t offered to collect it at any point. Is it on me to get it to her? She isnt exactly a nice person and she knows where I live…

Thanks for getting to the end!

They have 3 options now.

1. Reject chargeback with their reasons. They have 45 days to do so. May take bank longer to pick up. You get redebited & will have to go legal route.
2. Do nothing, you win. You have the car & money. No fix. In reality you should return.
3. They do not reject chargeback, but then issue court papers to claim the money back that way. You get your day in court...

Given the mention of "Her" is this a actual company, or just someone selling on social media?

Leonberger

Sorry, the dealer is female but a business. She owns the company (as per companies house) It was a company with a website, Facebook page and autotrader page. These have all changed names a different company name and address.  

To be honest I didn’t realise the money would come back to me. I thought they would hold it until the ‘case’ was investigated. 

I am happy to go to court on principle but if I’m going to spend a fortune and not gain much I’m not sure it’s worth it.

I contacted the dealer multiple times. I rang, had a text exchange (as she said she needed this to translate rather than verbally) and also sent 2 recorded letters drafted by trading standards asking her to repair the vehicle. 

The car was 2012 plate with 100k miles on. Trading standards have told me that it’s irrelevant how old it was because she needs to prove the car was safe for sale which she didn’t. Not sure if that’s true or not. £4000 is a lot to loose on a car that’s lasted just over a month, hence why I bought from a dealer for some sort of protection. Is it the case this only applies to new or young cars?

powerful_Rogue

Leonberger said:

Sorry, the dealer is female but a business. She owns the company (as per companies house) It was a company with a website, Facebook page and autotrader page. These have all changed names a different company name and address.  

To be honest I didn’t realise the money would come back to me. I thought they would hold it until the ‘case’ was investigated. 

I am happy to go to court on principle but if I’m going to spend a fortune and not gain much I’m not sure it’s worth it.

I contacted the dealer multiple times. I rang, had a text exchange (as she said she needed this to translate rather than verbally) and also sent 2 recorded letters drafted by trading standards asking her to repair the vehicle. 

The car was 2012 plate with 100k miles on. Trading standards have told me that it’s irrelevant how old it was because she needs to prove the car was safe for sale which she didn’t. Not sure if that’s true or not. £4000 is a lot to loose on a car that’s lasted just over a month, hence why I bought from a dealer for some sort of protection. Is it the case this only applies to new or young cars?

Age and mileage are taken into account for second hand vehicles. It must be something special costing £4000 at 12 years old with 100k miles on the clock.

You say the car is unsafe, yet you was able to drive it for 36 days? What has actually happened to the car?

Did you speak to Trading Standards or Citizens Advice?

Leonberger

No nothing special! Just a family car but they tend to hold their value. I needed it as a stop gap so bought something that would hold its value so I could part ex it. The price was on par with all others on autotrader (ie not cheap because it was badly maintained) and they seem to go for 200k miles so I thought it would be fine. I checked the garage out and believed the seller.

The car was a bit rough sounding but I’ve never had an auto so was told they just sound like that. It was a big engine diesel so was louder than I was used to. It drove very few miles (maybe 5-10 miles a day 3 days a week) for just over a month before it threw many engine warning lights and died. It starts but has no power so can’t be driven over about 10mph.  My own garage have suggested it’s likely a boost leak because the vehicle has corroded pipes but it could also be turbo related. I am not a mechanic so I have no clue.

I spoke to both trading standards and citizens advice. The advice I was given and went with was that the car must be safe and ‘last a reasonable amount of time’ and they told me that a month wasn’t acceptable, they suggested I have rights for 6 months regardless as the vehicle was not advertised as a project car but a family vehicle. 

How should I have handled it if I’ve gone about this wrong, as the seller wouldn’t respond to me? 

powerful_Rogue

Leonberger said:

No nothing special! Just a family car but they tend to hold their value. I needed it as a stop gap so bought something that would hold its value so I could part ex it. The price was on par with all others on autotrader (ie not cheap because it was badly maintained) and they seem to go for 200k miles so I thought it would be fine. I checked the garage out and believed the seller.

The car was a bit rough sounding but I’ve never had an auto so was told they just sound like that. It was a big engine diesel so was louder than I was used to. It drove very few miles (maybe 5-10 miles a day 3 days a week) for just over a month before it threw many engine warning lights and died. It starts but has no power so can’t be driven over about 10mph.  My own garage have suggested it’s likely a boost leak because the vehicle has corroded pipes but it could also be turbo related. I am not a mechanic so I have no clue.

I spoke to both trading standards and citizens advice. The advice I was given and went with was that the car must be safe and ‘last a reasonable amount of time’ and they told me that a month wasn’t acceptable, they suggested I have rights for 6 months regardless as the vehicle was not advertised as a project car but a family vehicle. 

How should I have handled it if I’ve gone about this wrong, as the seller wouldn’t respond to me? 

You do have rights, but must remember it's a 12 year old vehicle with 100k on the clock.

Your problem is that the retailer is likely to close down operations so you'll have no-one to claim against.

Leonberger

Thankyou for your advice.
I already have the money back as the bank ruled in my favour unless she disputes it but it feels very uncertain. Plus I still have the car!

In fairness I didn’t expect a refund. I understood it’s an older vehicle, I just wanted a repair or at least a contribution to repair but didn’t even get a reply. As a business I felt this was really wrong especially when I’m not the only person that this has happened to. It’s a cheap car but a lot of money to loose 🙁

Okell

@born_again -  how is chargeback supposed to work in a situation like this?

Can the trader challenge the initial chargeback on the grounds that the consumer has not returned the vehicle or not made it available for collection?

Should the consumer be returning the vehicle before the trader can challenge the chargeback?  And if he does do that, what happens if the trader challenges the chrgeback on other grounds?  Could the consumer end up with no money and the hassle of getting the car back from an uncooperative trader?

If I'd bought a second-hand car and had raised a chargeback, I'd have no idea whether at all or when I should be returning the vehicle to the trader

Which is the question the OP is asking...

Olinda99

chargeback is simply a reversal of the payment method

There is no simple analogy but for example you could consider an analogy is that you paid for the car initially by cash and then went into the office and took that back cash you had used to pay for the car.

the dealer is now out of pocket and can do one of the things mentioned above in a previous post. 

of course you should return the car but bear in mind that the dealer canapply to reverse the chargeback i.e they can go to your house and pick up the cash again!

born_again

Okell said:

@born_again -  how is chargeback supposed to work in a situation like this?

Can the trader challenge the initial chargeback on the grounds that the consumer has not returned the vehicle or not made it available for collection?

Should the consumer be returning the vehicle before the trader can challenge the chargeback?  And if he does do that, what happens if the trader challenges the chrgeback on other grounds?  Could the consumer end up with no money and the hassle of getting the car back from an uncooperative trader?

If I'd bought a second-hand car and had raised a chargeback, I'd have no idea whether at all or when I should be returning the vehicle to the trader

Which is the question the OP is asking...

Yes, not returning car would be a valid reason. OP should have been advised of this, but we always caveat it with you could end up with no car or money.

No, trader can simply challenge with a valid reason, no need to ask customer to return.