Used charge back. Mistake?

Leonberger

Thanks all!

I was under the impression that the bank made a decision based on who was likely to be right or wrong. Ie it was investigated by a fraud team and they reviewed the evidence, therefore it would be harder for the trader to dispute. I had to submit pages of evidence and wait for it to be assessed before they issued the chargeback. It was consumer rights who told me to try this before going down the route of courts.  I thought it would force her to engage and repair the car at least but it’s maybe put me in a worse position because now I’m not certain if I have a refund or not so can’t return the car.  I didn’t expect a full refund so if she had been reasonable in the first place I’m sure it would have been sorted by now. Surely any court could see 30 odd days is not acceptable for any product bought by a business and sold as a working item regardless of what it is. 

I suppose I’m wondering what evidence she requires to dispute it. Considering she has none. The car came with no service, she had not put on an MOT and it had bald non roadworthy tyres (to the point my garage wouldn’t let me drive away without replacement) alongside the other issues. It shows she had not paid any attention to what she was selling prior to sale and didn’t care whether it was legal to sell or not.  Regardless of whether the buyer should have a report when buying a used car from a dealer or not, she should not have sold it to anyone in this condition, it’s not a case of buyer beware when your buying from a supposedly reputable company compared to a private individual. I know of at least 3 others taking her to small emails yet they are still operating. 
if she can dispute it with no evidence and then I'm back to taking her to court, which makes this whole process a waste of time! I’m now stuck for 45 or so days until I hear the outcome through. 

I would gladly return the car except it doesn’t drive and she’s miles away. I would need to pay for it to be transported with no guarantee she would accept it. The car is worth scrap and I would recycle it if I couldn’t get my money back as the repair isn’t worth it for someone not in the trades ( most of the cost is labour) . I  could also be left with no car or money if the bank returns the money. I also don’t want to deal with her directly and would rather everything was through the bank or legal channels because of how aggressive she is in her replies. I think if I ring her to organise collection it will cause me more problems! 

powerful_Rogue

Leonberger said:

Thanks all!

I was under the impression that the bank made a decision based on who was likely to be right or wrong. Ie it was investigated by a fraud team and they reviewed the evidence, therefore it would be harder for the trader to dispute. I had to submit pages of evidence and wait for it to be assessed before they issued the chargeback. It was consumer rights who told me to try this before going down the route of courts.  I thought it would force her to engage and repair the car at least but it’s maybe put me in a worse position because now I’m not certain if I have a refund or not so can’t return the car.  I didn’t expect a full refund so if she had been reasonable in the first place I’m sure it would have been sorted by now. Surely any court could see 30 odd days is not acceptable for any product bought by a business and sold as a working item regardless of what it is. 

I suppose I’m wondering what evidence she requires to dispute it. Considering she has none. The car came with no service, she had not put on an MOT and it had bald non roadworthy tyres (to the point my garage wouldn’t let me drive away without replacement) alongside the other issues. It shows she had not paid any attention to what she was selling prior to sale and didn’t care whether it was legal to sell or not.  Regardless of whether the buyer should have a report when buying a used car from a dealer or not, she should not have sold it to anyone in this condition, it’s not a case of buyer beware when your buying from a supposedly reputable company compared to a private individual. I know of at least 3 others taking her to small emails yet they are still operating. 
if she can dispute it with no evidence and then I'm back to taking her to court, which makes this whole process a waste of time! I’m now stuck for 45 or so days until I hear the outcome through. 

I would gladly return the car except it doesn’t drive and she’s miles away. I would need to pay for it to be transported with no guarantee she would accept it. The car is worth scrap and I would recycle it if I couldn’t get my money back as the repair isn’t worth it for someone not in the trades ( most of the cost is labour) . I  could also be left with no car or money if the bank returns the money. I also don’t want to deal with her directly and would rather everything was through the bank or legal channels because of how aggressive she is in her replies. I think if I ring her to organise collection it will cause me more problems! 

But you was aware it came with no service history when you purchased it? Did she say she was going to put a new MOT on the vehicle prior to purchase?

How many miles have you done since purchase and taking it to the garage?

Undervalued

Leonberger said:

Thanks all!

I was under the impression that the bank made a decision based on who was likely to be right or wrong. Ie it was investigated by a fraud team and they reviewed the evidence, therefore it would be harder for the trader to dispute. I had to submit pages of evidence and wait for it to be assessed before they issued the chargeback. It was consumer rights who told me to try this before going down the route of courts.  I thought it would force her to engage and repair the car at least but it’s maybe put me in a worse position because now I’m not certain if I have a refund or not so can’t return the car.  I didn’t expect a full refund so if she had been reasonable in the first place I’m sure it would have been sorted by now. Surely any court could see 30 odd days is not acceptable for any product bought by a business and sold as a working item regardless of what it is. 

I suppose I’m wondering what evidence she requires to dispute it. Considering she has none. The car came with no service, she had not put on an MOT and it had bald non roadworthy tyres (to the point my garage wouldn’t let me drive away without replacement) alongside the other issues. It shows she had not paid any attention to what she was selling prior to sale and didn’t care whether it was legal to sell or not.  Regardless of whether the buyer should have a report when buying a used car from a dealer or not, she should not have sold it to anyone in this condition, it’s not a case of buyer beware when your buying from a supposedly reputable company compared to a private individual. I know of at least 3 others taking her to small emails yet they are still operating. 
if she can dispute it with no evidence and then I'm back to taking her to court, which makes this whole process a waste of time! I’m now stuck for 45 or so days until I hear the outcome through. 

I would gladly return the car except it doesn’t drive and she’s miles away. I would need to pay for it to be transported with no guarantee she would accept it. The car is worth scrap and I would recycle it if I couldn’t get my money back as the repair isn’t worth it for someone not in the trades ( most of the cost is labour) . I  could also be left with no car or money if the bank returns the money. I also don’t want to deal with her directly and would rather everything was through the bank or legal channels because of how aggressive she is in her replies. I think if I ring her to organise collection it will cause me more problems! 

No. You misunderstand.

A chargeback is just like stopping a cheque. The bank assess whether under the banking regulations if it is legal for you to make a chargeback. They do not in any way make a judgement on the rights and wrongs of your case against the trader.

As has been said the dealer has 45 days to dispute if the bank has acted correctly in allowing the chargeback. Again, that is not the same as the rights and wrongs of the dispute about the condition of the car.

Once the 45 days are up, if you still have the money the trader will have to take you to court if they think they have a case. 

If they successfully dispute the technicalities of the chargeback the bank will debit you and return the money to the dealer. You will then have to sue the trader to recover any money.

You are not entitled to both the money and the car. If you keep the money you will need to give the trader the genuine opportunity of collecting the car. If they fail to do so you can dispose of it for the best price you can reasonably get and offer this money (less your reasonable expenses) to the trader.

Leonberger

The car came with no documents at all. I purchased it from autotrader who said it was in good condition, well maintained etc. I didn’t know it wasn’t serviced or that it only had a few months MOT. She didn’t say a lot to be honest as English isn’t her first language so communication was difficult. It’s driven very few miles since my ownership, maybe 100. Certainly not hammered.  

I can see your points @powerful_Rogue but consumer rights have told me I have rights for 6 months by buying from a business. I am not a motor trader nor a mechanic, by consumer law it’s up to her to prove that the car was fit for sale and roadworthy, not the consumer. Yes, I should have checked it out but I trusted a garage and a business. Like I say, 4k is a lot to just accept as a loss when I’ve had the car just over a month.  Surely any dealer has a responsibility to not sell vehicles they have not mechanically inspected at the very least. If she had she would have noted the whole underside is corroded probably leading to the problem as well as the rest of the problems with the car.

I suppose it would have been better to let the court decide which I probably will have to be the sounds of it! 

powerful_Rogue

Leonberger said:

The car came with no documents at all. I purchased it from autotrader who said it was in good condition, well maintained etc. I didn’t know it wasn’t serviced or that it only had a few months MOT. She didn’t say a lot to be honest as English isn’t her first language so communication was difficult. It’s driven very few miles since my ownership, maybe 100. Certainly not hammered.  

I can see your points @powerful_Rogue but consumer rights have told me I have rights for 6 months by buying from a business. I am not a motor trader nor a mechanic, by consumer law it’s up to her to prove that the car was fit for sale and roadworthy, not the consumer. Yes, I should have checked it out but I trusted a garage and a business. Like I say, 4k is a lot to just accept as a loss when I’ve had the car just over a month.  Surely any dealer has a responsibility to not sell vehicles they have not mechanically inspected at the very least. If she had she would have noted the whole underside is corroded probably leading to the problem as well as the rest of the problems with the car.

I suppose it would have been better to let the court decide which I probably will have to be the sounds of it! 

You do have rights, but enforcing them is a totally different matter. As is common with these kind of car dealers, they simply fold the company and open up under a new name.

You also need to do your own checks in future, two minutes online with the registration number will tell you the current MOT status. If communication is difficult, then walk away.

Did you pick the car up in person or have it delivered?

Leonberger

Thank you. I do appreciate everyone’s advice!

I think that’s basically what she’s done as I purchased it from garage X but the website now takes me to garage Y. 

I 100% should have walked away. Unfortunately learnt the hard way! I collected it in person there and then, as in I turned up. Bought the car with my card and drove it away!

powerful_Rogue

Leonberger said:

Thank you. I do appreciate everyone’s advice!

I think that’s basically what she’s done as I purchased it from garage X but the website now takes me to garage Y. 

I 100% should have walked away. Unfortunately learnt the hard way! I collected it in person there and then, as in I turned up. Bought the car with my card and drove it away!

Hopefully the chargeback will be fruitful for you.

Worth checking companies house etc to see if this woman has a history of opening/closing car dealerships, might help prevent you throwing good money after bad incase you consider SCC.

born_again

Leonberger said:

Thanks all!

I was under the impression that the bank made a decision based on who was likely to be right or wrong. Ie it was investigated by a fraud team and they reviewed the evidence, therefore it would be harder for the trader to dispute. I had to submit pages of evidence and wait for it to be assessed before they issued the chargeback. It was consumer rights who told me to try this before going down the route of courts.  I thought it would force her to engage and repair the car at least but it’s maybe put me in a worse position because now I’m not certain if I have a refund or not so can’t return the car.  I didn’t expect a full refund so if she had been reasonable in the first place I’m sure it would have been sorted by now. Surely any court could see 30 odd days is not acceptable for any product bought by a business and sold as a working item regardless of what it is. 

I suppose I’m wondering what evidence she requires to dispute it. Considering she has none. The car came with no service, she had not put on an MOT and it had bald non roadworthy tyres (to the point my garage wouldn’t let me drive away without replacement) alongside the other issues. It shows she had not paid any attention to what she was selling prior to sale and didn’t care whether it was legal to sell or not.  Regardless of whether the buyer should have a report when buying a used car from a dealer or not, she should not have sold it to anyone in this condition, it’s not a case of buyer beware when your buying from a supposedly reputable company compared to a private individual. I know of at least 3 others taking her to small emails yet they are still operating. 
if she can dispute it with no evidence and then I'm back to taking her to court, which makes this whole process a waste of time! I’m now stuck for 45 or so days until I hear the outcome through. 

I would gladly return the car except it doesn’t drive and she’s miles away. I would need to pay for it to be transported with no guarantee she would accept it. The car is worth scrap and I would recycle it if I couldn’t get my money back as the repair isn’t worth it for someone not in the trades ( most of the cost is labour) . I  could also be left with no car or money if the bank returns the money. I also don’t want to deal with her directly and would rather everything was through the bank or legal channels because of how aggressive she is in her replies. I think if I ring her to organise collection it will cause me more problems! 

Your bank plays no part in the chargeback, other than checking they have all the details required for that type of chargeback. Otherwise it can be thrown out on a technicality. It is then sent to the retailers merchant bank who then pass to the retailer. If they contest, it then follows the reverse process.

Best guess on why trader disputed it & bank could confirm this is that you still had the car.

Chargebacks are over & above consumer rights, which play no part of the chargeback process.

Would be interesting to know which chargeback was used here, As faulty would not be applicable, as it has to be faulty when received. Which clearly it was not.

As to taking to court. you have already mention that the name has changed. Which tend to mean that they have closed down, so while you can sue, odds of getting anything are nil to zero.

Leonberger

So if that happens I’ve lost 4k if this fails? The company is still active with companies house but the website etc has changed. The reviews are full of people in the same boat. Seems being robbing people may have been a better career choice. 

born_again

Leonberger said:

So if that happens I’ve lost 4k if this fails? The company is still active with companies house but the website etc has changed. The reviews are full of people in the same boat. Seems being robbing people may have been a better career choice. 

Companies often show active, but they are no longer trading. When you look at people what does it say?

Or what is the company number so others can check?