Paragon query/ advice if poss !

Pinky85

Hi, . I need some advice … 

October 2015 my bf split from his wife . He literally had just the clothes on his back. My mom took him in as he was essentially homeless . He did work at the time. Start of 2016 he realised his wife had put them both in a lot of debt - he would work all hours and she would stay at home and be in charge of the bills etc . 

Long story short I managed to get him an IVA with payplan and he started to pay his share of the debt. He payed this for about 2-3 months until he had to leave his job due to a mental breakdown aswell as declining physical health. 

This meant he was unable to continue paying his IVA being on ESA he couldn’t afford the monthly payments and so it failed . 

Payplan sent him a list of all his creditors and with the advice of CAB I wrote to them all askin if they would be willing to write off the debt due to his declining health and situation etc. this was June 2017. 

A few wrote back , some did write off the debt and some agreed on £1 a month token payment . We are still paying 2 of those now but one has since been written off. 

Some of the companies , one being a company called Paragon bank  didn’t reply at all. 

December 2017 a letter was received at my moms address addressed to my partner and his ex wife , they were trying to make contact with his ex wife and said they’d been given my moms address for this . 4 times they wrote to my mom and 4 times she told them his ex wife doesn’t and has never lived there . We didn’t hear off them again. 

Fast forward to this week and his now ex wife to whom he went on to divorce 7 years ago sent him a message to say a letter had came to her house addressed to him and she had opened it (illegal ?!) it was off Paragon and they were wanting to make contact with my bf and had been given her address. She told him to contact them and say he don’t live at her house . 

We emailed them and told them he hasnt lived there for 9 years and that we wrote to them in June 2017 regarding his situation etc and that they never replied. That he’s on a low joint benefit with myself and basically we don’t have enough to make ends meet and he doesn’t have anything to pay them if they say he owes them.  

We also had a letter to our flat today off them asking to make contact. 

This debt does not show up on his credit score either . 

I understand about the statute barred thing, and been as it’s been 7 years , where do we stand with this debt ? It’s for 34k which I know is a lot but he doesn’t have a clue what it was for and his ex wife won’t disclose any info either . 

Have we essentially put the clock back to zero by sending that email or not ? 

We both suffer with severe MH and this has really took its toll . 

Any advice ? 

Thanks 

sourcrates

What sort of debt was it for 34k?

Any simple contract debt not paid or acknowledged in writing for any period of 6 years since the date of default, will be statute barred and he won`t have to pay it.

I assume it was a loan, was it secured on anything?

Pinky85

sourcrates said:

What sort of debt was it for 34k?

Any simple contract debt not paid or acknowledged in writing for any period of 6 years since the date of default, will be statute barred and he won`t have to pay it.

I assume it was a loan, was it secured on anything?

 He has literally no idea what it was for . He admits he was stupid in the fact that he would just work all hours and give the money to his then wife and she would be in charge of all the bills and if she ever asked him to sign something he would just sign it and trust her. He regrets it now but at the time he trusted her. She won’t seem to disclose anything either which is weird. I knew about the statute barred thing but I wasn’t sure if it would apply been as she had been paying her IVA as far as we are aware , dunno if she is paying it now as she won’t divulge in things like that even though it’s joint debt. 

Just don’t want it to get nasty and I have visions of balifs etc which scares me. We live in social housing and literally have nothing . 

RAS

You need to know if this was secured, unsecured, joint or sole debt.

It may be worth checking the Individual Insolvency Register for ex's name?

I'd suggest that if you communicate with Paragon at all, you send the Prove It letter. The prove it letter avoids admitting liability but your email may have re-set the statute barred date.

And if the ex paid anything towards a joint debt in the last 6 years, it's not statute barred.

There are other options but the starting point is finding out what this debt was about.

Pinky85

RAS said:

You need to know if this was secured, unsecured, joint or sole debt.

It may be worth checking the Individual Insolvency Register for ex's name?

I'd suggest that if you communicate with Paragon at all, you send the Prove It letter. The prove it letter avoids admitting liability but your email may have re-set the statute barred date.

And if the ex paid anything towards a joint debt in the last 6 years, it's not statute barred.

There are other options but the starting point is finding out what this debt was about.

It’s definitely a joint debt as when they wrote to my mom’s house in December 2017 it was addressed to them both but they were only trying to contact his ex wife. 

I’ve just searched the insolvency register and nothing comes up in her name . 

I really don’t know if the loan was secure or insecure and my bf won’t either . This is gonna be harder than I thought as his ex wife won’t give any info to him she is a very difficult woman. 

I just don’t know why 7 years after the letter they sent wanting to contact her they are now writing wanting to contact my bf like why so long? 

Do you think I should send a statue barres letter like you said asking them to prove it ? 

I’ve also done a google of the company and it says they only provide secure loans . 

RAS

None of us can know why the company has suddenly crawled out of the woodwork. A new manager, a new automated client handling system? Discovered a load of old files?

There's one bottom end debt collector that bought a huge pile of ancient debt quite recently and is resurrecting the dead in the hope of getting a few people to panic and pay up. Cue a lot of panicked new posters here. 

Don't use the statute barred letter if you don't know what the debt is about.  You can't know if this debt is statute barred because you don't know what the ex has done over the last 6 years.

Use the prove it letter, which is in the same stickie above. Come back when they reply, or if they try issuing a letter before action. They shouldn't until that respond to the prove it letter but we've see some try to use one to bully people when they haven't provided the paperwork.

Pinky85

RAS said:

None of us can know why the company has suddenly crawled out of the woodwork. A new manager, a new automated client handling system? Discovered a load of old files?

There's one bottom end debt collector that bought a huge pile of ancient debt quite recently and is resurrecting the dead in the hope of getting a few people to panic and pay up. Cue a lot of panicked new posters here. 

Don't use the statute barred letter if you don't know what the debt is about.  You can't know if this debt is statute barred because you don't know what the ex has done over the last 6 years.

Use the prove it letter, which is in the same stickie above. Come back when they reply, or if they try issuing a letter before action. They shouldn't until that respond to the prove it letter but we've see some try to use one to bully people when they haven't provided the paperwork.

Thanks. Could I get help in regards to the mental health route ? He suffers with severe mental health and also addiction. I’ve managed to get a few of the other joint debts written off due to mental health issues and so I hoping I can do so with this one too ? 

Also shall I wait until they reply to my original email I sent Monday before sending them this letter ? 

RAS

I'll nick sourcrate's line on this.

I appreciate that you are shocked by the reappearance of an old debt like this, but you need to calm down. In particular you need to deal with now, not maybes.

Given their previous form, Paragon may take ages to respond to your email, may reply on Tuesday, or never. You need to live with that uncertainty. 

Come back when you get a response, until then everything is conjecture. The only other thing that matters is a letter before action, but at present no-one  knows if Paragon's paperwork makes that possible.

Trying to cover all bases makes it more likely that you'll do something inappropriate which leads Paragon to think they can push it or re-instates liability. 

The other complication is that this is your partner's debt and really they need to deal with it under GDPR.

Pinky85

RAS said:

I'll nick sourcrate's line on this.

I appreciate that you are shocked by the reappearance of an old debt like this, but you need to calm down. In particular you need to deal with now, not maybes.

Given their previous form, Paragon may take ages to respond to your email, may reply on Tuesday, or never. You need to live with that uncertainty. 

Come back when you get a response, until then everything is conjecture. The only other thing that matters is a letter before action, but at present no-one  knows if Paragon's paperwork makes that possible.

Trying to cover all bases makes it more likely that you'll do something inappropriate which leads Paragon to think they can push it or re-instates liability. 

The other complication is that this is your partner's debt and really they need to deal with it under GDPR.

Thank you. I know I get worked up over this kind of stuff but it’s my mental health also. I am a worrier and will stress and stress until I make myself really unwell which has happened before . 

I will just sit it out and wait until they reply. 

Thanks 

sourcrates

The maximum personal loan you can get, or could get was around 25k, so at 34k, I'm thinking this may be a mortgage shortfall debt, or an old secured loan possibly.

Did they own a house together which has been sold/repossessed?

Basically just trying to eliminate things here, if the debt was still secured Paragon would be going down the legal route to recover this debt by now, as they aren't it suggests the above might apply, any thoughts OP?

Also in regard to your initial email to them, if you did not specifically mention the debt, you will be OK, and will not have re-set the time clock.

However if the debt was from a mortgage shortfall, the limitation period is 12 years, not 6, if it was a secured/unsecured loan, then the 6 year rule applies.

Pinky85

sourcrates said:

The maximum personal loan you can get, or could get was around 25k, so at 34k, I'm thinking this may be a mortgage shortfall debt, or an old secured loan possibly.

Did they own a house together which has been sold/repossessed?

Basically just trying to eliminate things here, if the debt was still secured Paragon would be going down the legal route to recover this debt by now, as they aren't it suggests the above might apply, any thoughts OP?

Also in regard to your initial email to them, if you did not specifically mention the debt, you will be OK, and will not have re-set the time clock.

However if the debt was from a mortgage shortfall, the limitation period is 12 years, not 6, if it was a secured/unsecured loan, then the 6 year rule applies.

I thought it may have been mortgage of some kind but he said they used a different company for that , but maybe paragon bought the debt off that company? 

They did have a mortgage on the house but they couldn’t keep up with the payments so they sold the house back to the council and now she rents it off the council. 

I didn’t mention the debt in the email no but I did say about being on a benefit and don’t have any money to give if they are saying he owes them money. But that isn’t admitting a debt . 

He emailed them on Monday and they are yet to reply so all we can do is wait. But been as they sent letters to my moms house in 2017 asking to make contact with his ex wife , I am guessing they never did cos she would be the first to say if they were after money for the both of them. It’s just so random how it’s popped up again almost 8 years later .