Winter Fuel Allowance under discussion by Martin.

whattochoose

I was listening to Times Radio earlier. Martin Lewis was a guest.
Basically, he said he's concerned about the removal of the Winter Fuel Allowance (WFA) for millions of pensioners.
He told the interviewer he will be meeting Rachel Reeves soon and will be voicing his concerns to her.
He said he feels a fairer way of determining who gets the WFA would be by allocating it based on a person's Council Tax banding, e.g. those on bands A, B, C (or D), would still receive the WFA, those above wouldn't. He will be making this proposal to the Chancellor.
He said he knew it wasn't perfect, but he felt it would be more equitable than what is being proposed at present.
What do you think?

Brie

The problem with any thing like this is that there will always be people who miss out.  There's lots of people who are asset rich but cash poor - so sitting in a big old family home with no way to pay for the heating.  Obviously one might say they should move out and down size.  

I didn't hear the interview but wonder if there's some variation possible with those who get a break on their council tax due to low income/benefits also being included?

dunstonh

Tax bounding, e.g. those on bands A, B, C (or D), would still receive the WFA, those above wouldn't. He will be making this proposal to the Chancellor.

Not sure that is a fair idea.   A-D can still be some very affluent people.   C & D would be detached 3&4 bedroom houses in our area.     Having an expensive house is no indication of having a large income.

Personally, linking it to means tested benefits is more sensible.   The Government has handed out too much money in the last 5 years and that needs to end.

Silvertabby

The only way this would work would be if WFA was linked to council tax, so local government would be responsible for paying it rather than central government.

I'm inclined to think that means testing WFA beyond adding it to pension credit would be more costly than just paying it to all pensioners.  I know there have been screams of 'why should millionaires get it' but how many millionaires  actually apply for the State pension in the first place?   Someone who has always been self employed or who lives off family money probably hasn't paid the necessary class of NI contributions to qualify for the State pension in the first place.  

Brie

Silvertabby said:

The only way this would work would be if WFA was linked to council tax, so local government would be responsible for paying it rather than central government.

I'm inclined to think that means testing WFA beyond adding it to pension credit would be more costly than just paying it to all pensioners.  I know there have been screams of 'why should millionaires get it' but how many millionaires  actually apply for the State pension in the first place?   Someone who has always been self employed or who lives off family money probably hasn't paid the necessary class of NI contributions to qualify for the State pension in the first place.  

Lots of rich people are rich because they take all the advantages that are available.  Maybe add it on to the tax allowance somehow?  So if you're paying tax on £50k you get nothing but on £25k you do?  Of course then there will be the screams about a couple each getting £25k qualifying when another where one person earns £50k doesn't.  No system is going to satisfy everyone.  

Silvertabby

Brie said:

Silvertabby said:

The only way this would work would be if WFA was linked to council tax, so local government would be responsible for paying it rather than central government.

I'm inclined to think that means testing WFA beyond adding it to pension credit would be more costly than just paying it to all pensioners.  I know there have been screams of 'why should millionaires get it' but how many millionaires  actually apply for the State pension in the first place?   Someone who has always been self employed or who lives off family money probably hasn't paid the necessary class of NI contributions to qualify for the State pension in the first place.  

Lots of rich people are rich because they take all the advantages that are available.  Maybe add it on to the tax allowance somehow?  So if you're paying tax on £50k you get nothing but on £25k you do?  Of course then there will be the screams about a couple each getting £25k qualifying when another where one person earns £50k doesn't.  No system is going to satisfy everyone.  

The perfect system doesn't exist, and never will.  To be fair, we (both standard rate tax payers) won't miss the WFA.  Indeed, it's always gone to someone who needs it more than we do.  But I just feel so desperately sorry for those estimated 2 million pensioners who are just a few £s over the means test limit, and so will lose a payment that they really rely on.  

tacpot12

There is any argument hat the Triple Lock is more valuable to the pensioners who just fail to meet the criteria to claim Pension Credit than the Winter Fuel Allowance (WFA). If Rachel Reeves has to make a decision between ending the Triple Lock or ending the WFA unless you claim Pension Credit, then it's probably better to lose the WFA 

born_again

Silvertabby said:

Brie said:

Silvertabby said:

The only way this would work would be if WFA was linked to council tax, so local government would be responsible for paying it rather than central government.

I'm inclined to think that means testing WFA beyond adding it to pension credit would be more costly than just paying it to all pensioners.  I know there have been screams of 'why should millionaires get it' but how many millionaires  actually apply for the State pension in the first place?   Someone who has always been self employed or who lives off family money probably hasn't paid the necessary class of NI contributions to qualify for the State pension in the first place.  

Lots of rich people are rich because they take all the advantages that are available.  Maybe add it on to the tax allowance somehow?  So if you're paying tax on £50k you get nothing but on £25k you do?  Of course then there will be the screams about a couple each getting £25k qualifying when another where one person earns £50k doesn't.  No system is going to satisfy everyone.  

The perfect system doesn't exist, and never will.  To be fair, we (both standard rate tax payers) won't miss the WFA.  Indeed, it's always gone to someone who needs it more than we do.  But I just feel so desperately sorry for those estimated 2 million pensioners who are just a few £s over the means test limit, and so will lose a payment that they really rely on.  

If only they spent enough on something they really need, then they would bypass that issue.

No offence to anyone, but knowing a lot of people in this situation, they are sitting on funds, just to leave to their children. Instead of using them for their own needs.

Silvertabby

born_again said:

Silvertabby said:

Brie said:

Silvertabby said:

The only way this would work would be if WFA was linked to council tax, so local government would be responsible for paying it rather than central government.

I'm inclined to think that means testing WFA beyond adding it to pension credit would be more costly than just paying it to all pensioners.  I know there have been screams of 'why should millionaires get it' but how many millionaires  actually apply for the State pension in the first place?   Someone who has always been self employed or who lives off family money probably hasn't paid the necessary class of NI contributions to qualify for the State pension in the first place.  

Lots of rich people are rich because they take all the advantages that are available.  Maybe add it on to the tax allowance somehow?  So if you're paying tax on £50k you get nothing but on £25k you do?  Of course then there will be the screams about a couple each getting £25k qualifying when another where one person earns £50k doesn't.  No system is going to satisfy everyone.  

The perfect system doesn't exist, and never will.  To be fair, we (both standard rate tax payers) won't miss the WFA.  Indeed, it's always gone to someone who needs it more than we do.  But I just feel so desperately sorry for those estimated 2 million pensioners who are just a few £s over the means test limit, and so will lose a payment that they really rely on.  

If only they spent enough on something they really need, then they would bypass that issue.

No offence to anyone, but knowing a lot of people in this situation, they are sitting on funds, just to leave to their children. Instead of using them for their own needs.

It's not always a question of being ineligible because they have savings over the limit, it's those who have the State pension plus a really small personal or occupational pension, which takes them over the means test limit.

But, yes, I do agree that those with savings should use them.  Only problem is that their generation believe in hanging on to their savings, primarily for their funeral expenses. 

german_keeper

It's politicians though isn't it. A bit of honesty wouldn't have gone amiss. Even if they had just talked about potholes and the NHS, the 2 things that most people seemed to mention despite there being so many more, it would have been nice to see one of the 2 major parties, who realistically were the only 2 who were ever going to win, talk about tax rises being needed.

We are not well off by any stretch of the imagination but far better placed to pay an extra £300 than the people who Silvertabby mentions just above the PC threshold. We would have been quite happy to pay our fair share as long as others with more paid their fair share as well.

LinLui

Winter in the UK kills pensioners and the disabled. There's dozens of studies proving that. Their illnesses and deaths impact on NHS and care services, overstretching already overburdened services. Dozens more studies evidence that. Energy prices for winter are heading through the roof again. People will die. It's that simple. The cost of faffing with an imperfect system to replace it with another imperfect system isn't worth the so-called savings. For the odd millionaire that gets a winter fuel allowance, I'm for them getting it if it means some 70 year person who has worked all their lives can put on the heating and a box set. There are certain things in a decent society that nobody should have to struggle with, and being warm when you are vulnerable is one of them. I'd not only leave it as it is, I would extend the allowance to those with disabilities. 

And if I am not straying into the area of politics, we could rebalance that millionaire getting it by taxing hell out of the rich instead of letting them get away with avoiding tax.