Winter Fuel Allowance under discussion by Martin.

Grumpy_chap

molerat said:

The simplest long term method would be to make all benefits, including the BIK received when on pension credit etc, taxable.  Fairness all round.  Would need a big change to bring DWP etc into the PAYE system but it could be done if their was a will.

I understood that benefit income was taxable.  It is often moot, for example PC, as the eligibility criteria mean below personal allowance.

FIREDreamer

Grumpy_chap said:

molerat said:

The simplest long term method would be to make all benefits, including the BIK received when on pension credit etc, taxable.  Fairness all round.  Would need a big change to bring DWP etc into the PAYE system but it could be done if their was a will.

I understood that benefit income was taxable.  It is often moot, for example PC, as the eligibility criteria mean below personal allowance.

I don’t think universal credit is taxable. I have seen large awards letters (£3,500 per month) on various facebook groups for people checking their entitlements, and there is no mention of any tax.

zagfles

Grumpy_chap said:

molerat said:

The simplest long term method would be to make all benefits, including the BIK received when on pension credit etc, taxable.  Fairness all round.  Would need a big change to bring DWP etc into the PAYE system but it could be done if their was a will.

I understood that benefit income was taxable.  It is often moot, for example PC, as the eligibility criteria mean below personal allowance.

Most benefit income is not taxable. Pension credit isn't. State pension is, contribution based JSA is, but housing benefit, LHA, attendance allowance, most disability benefits DLA PIP etc aren't. 

See Income Tax: introduction: Tax-free and taxable state benefits - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Qyburn

LinLui said:

Energy prices for winter are heading through the roof again.

The October 2024 price cap makes electricity around 16% less expensive than October 2022.

michaels

Qyburn said:

LinLui said:

Energy prices for winter are heading through the roof again.

The October 2024 price cap makes electricity around 16% less expensive than October 2022.

And about 7% cheaper than same time last year - or even more when you take into account inflation.  In inflation adusted terms it is about 12% higher than before the energy crisis.

ukdw

With the majority of people paying their fuel bills via monthly direct debit in advance - then I think that a one off Winter Fuel payment isn't quite compatible with this.  I would have thought regular smaller payments aligned with the direct debit would better help with budgeting.

Therefore I would have thought the whole winter fuel payment should be removed and replaced with a small uplift in state pension for everyone - which for richer pensioners would then be partially recovered via income tax. 

IvanOpinion

Maybe if some made it clearer to their elderly parents that they do not have to spend a fortune on grandchildren at Christmas there would be less need for WFA.

zagfles

IvanOpinion said:

Maybe if some made it clearer to their elderly parents that they do not have to spend a fortune on grandchildren at Christmas there would be less need for WFA.

  We always made it crystal clear but it didn't stop them! 

FatFred66

I'm surprised nobody's made mention of the ridiculousness of using Pension Credit as a 'gateway' to the wider benefits package.

'Full' New State Pension is £221.20 per week or £11,502.40 pa. Single person Pension Credit is £218.15 pw or £11,343.80, just £158.60 difference.

Pension Credit means automatic entitlement to a whole bundle of benefits worth at least £320 to a 75 year old, even without the WFA adding a further £200-£300 disparity.

What madness is it that WFA is to be given to 'the poorest pensioners', to be determined by whether they're eligible for PC, when there's a whole class of other pensioners who already live on less than someone who qualifies for PC?

That whole group is actually being penalised for having contributed enough NI to qualify for full New State Pension, because if they didn't qualify they'd automatically get more on Pension Credit. Increasing the disparity by also stopping their WFA just makes a mockery of the contributory state pension.

How can it be right that someone who either has a full contribution record or a small personal pension can end up with a lower total income than someone who's never paid NI or saved?

One solution, and easier to administer than any other suggestions I've seen, would be to have a second Pension Credit threshold set at some point above the current one, which wouldn't result in a higher Pension Credit payment but would enable the rest of the benefit package. The means testing system for that is already there, it just needs a £0 award between the two thresholds.

woolly_wombat

Nebulous2 said:

I've complained about political discussions before - and here I am joining one.  Pointing it out before anyone else does. 

Pensioners are a powerful lobby group, and they vote in big numbers. There's an article in the independent saying that a lot of new Labour MPs have been shocked at how many letters and complaints they've had about stopping winter fuel allowance. There are likely to be further tax rises /  cuts in the budget, so it will  be interesting to see if cracks appear in their resolve to see their plans through. 

That ship has sailed.

Millenials now outnumber Boomers.