Winter Fuel Allowance under discussion by Martin.

hugheskevi

I think it would be better to question why Winter Fuel Payments exist at all in their current form. 

The name is utterly misleading, it is simply a £200 cash payment to younger pensioners and £300 to older pensioners made in November. Why is this necessary? Is there a belief that pensioners are unable to manage their budget for the more expensive November-December period and this requires State intervention and unnecessary administrative expenditure? Or perhaps pensioners are psychologically more likely to spend money on heating just because it is called WFP, compared to if it was called something like "Universal Pensioner Household Payment"?

Why not simply have a small enhancement to State Pension to pay it to all pensioners, or enhance Pension Credit slightly if you want to pay a bit more only to Pension Credit recipients. If it is essential to have a lump sum payment, why not simply enhance the Christmas Bonus for whichever recipients you want to have it? Having a completely separate benefit, with rules, eligibility, administration systems, and payment systems when it could all be delivered through State Pension or Pension Credit with no additional cost makes no sense other than the politics of it.

The policy dates back to the days of Gordon Brown's days as Chancellor, when there was an obsession with announcing something new for pensioners at every Budget, eg:

• ad hoc increases to State Pension 
• Winter Fuel Payments, then ad hoc hikes to Winter Fuel Payments
• Over 65 payments
• Over 70s payments
• free TV licenses for over 75s
• free eye tests for over 60s

It would be much more efficient to simply have one universal benefit - the State Pension - and the essential means-tested benefits - Pension Credit and Housing Benefit (and maybe Council Tax Benefit, but that is less clear as it could be part of the other benefits). Having all the small bolt-ons just adds costs and administration.

This year we will be making changes so that we give an above inflation State Pension increase to all pensioners through Triple Lock, then claw some of that back through fiscal drag, then take more than the Triple Lock increase back by removing Winter Fuel payment from some but not all. Or we could have just tweaked State Pension and Pension Credit rates to achieve the same things.

daveyjp

Government announcements on spending and tax raising are done in the budget.

The decision about winter fuel payments isn't signed off, I see it as a kiteflying exercise to gauge the reaction over summer and early autumn  in preparation for revised policy to be announced on 31 October,

GibbsRule_No3.

Martin was on Newsnight saying the same thing about A-C(D) bands. I thought it was only people over a certain age that got £300 WFA, most households with an OAP get £200 or £!00 each if two live in a household. OAPs facing £350 loss this year, last year there was a supplement on the £200 giving extra help, I thought that was probably because the Triple Lock was stopped for a year, so would see no reason to pay the extra this year, the loss of the usual £200 was a shock.

JoeCrystal

daveyjp said:

Government announcements on spending and tax raising are done in the budget.

The decision about winter fuel payments isn't signed off, I see it as a kiteflying exercise to gauge the reaction over summer and early autumn  in preparation for revised policy to be announced on 31 October,

What are you talking about? The Secretary of State has already issued the SI, changing it. It will be in force from 16th September, long before the budget. You have to bear in mind that they had to start paying on the third Monday of September. Hence, this is now properly signed off. Nothing is stopping them from changing it with a pen.

Unfortunately (and annoyingly), we will still be paying overseas citizens who applied for Winter Fuel Payment living in the following countries provided they moved to the following countries before 1st January 2021:

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden and Switzerland.

This link is for anyone lucky to live in these countries  They will issue the forms for people to fill out on 16th September. It should be interesting to see how they decide eligibility for these people overseas!

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/if-you-live-abroad

However, as I understand the SI, the entitlement of these pensioners overseas will expire on 1st April 2025.

Silvertabby

JoeCrystal said:

daveyjp said:

Government announcements on spending and tax raising are done in the budget.

The decision about winter fuel payments isn't signed off, I see it as a kiteflying exercise to gauge the reaction over summer and early autumn  in preparation for revised policy to be announced on 31 October,

What are you talking about? The Secretary of State has already issued the SI, changing it. It will be in force from 16th September, long before the budget. You have to bear in mind that they had to start paying on the third Monday of September. Hence, this is now properly signed off. Nothing is stopping them from changing it with a pen.

Unfortunately (and annoyingly), we will still be paying overseas citizens who applied for Winter Fuel Payment living in the following countries provided they moved to the following countries before 1st January 2021:

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden and Switzerland.

This link is for anyone lucky to live in these countries  They will issue the forms for people to fill out on 16th September. It should be interesting to see how they decide eligibility for these people overseas!

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/if-you-live-abroad

However, as I understand the SI, the entitlement of these pensioners overseas will expire on 1st April 2025.

But the link does say that eligibility rules are  'changing for winter 2024' and that further information will be issued in September.  I believe I'm right in saying that overseas pensioners can't claim pension credit, etc, so I suspect that the 'updated information' will remove the eligibility for WFA.

Nebulous2

I've complained about political discussions before - and here I am joining one.  Pointing it out before anyone else does. 

Pensioners are a powerful lobby group, and they vote in big numbers. There's an article in the independent saying that a lot of new Labour MPs have been shocked at how many letters and complaints they've had about stopping winter fuel allowance. There are likely to be further tax rises /  cuts in the budget, so it will  be interesting to see if cracks appear in their resolve to see their plans through. 

michaels

The administratively cheap and logically fair thing to do do avoid the cliff edge where pensioners who earn a penny more a week than the threshold and are not eligible for pension credit and thus this 200/300 payment is to roll the payment into pension credit by increasing the pension credit threshold and allowance.

However politically this would be seized on by opponents as 'scrapping the WFA for all pensioners' so unfortunately logic goes out the window and we get unfairness.

westv

I imagine the WFA would be just a bit of loose change for most on here. 

Silvertabby

westv said:

I imagine the WFA would be just a bit of loose change for most on here. 

But that doesn't stop us from caring about the ones for whom the WFA is crucial.

Jude57

I'm one of those @Silvertabby refers to. I'm a WASPI woman who had always worked full time and, for a time, was able to contribute to an occupational pension scheme. The plan was to go part-time at 60, taking my small pension to supplement my income until State Pension age of 65. However, I had to give up work at 58 due to ill health and was fortunate enough to be able to claim my small occupational pension at the time due to a change in the rules, but I did lose some entitlement by taking my pension early. I've been through all the hoops to claim disability benefits and finally gave up because the stress of doing so was affecting my health even more. I currently receive Council Tax Reduction but no other benefits. I've become used to scraping by, budget extremely carefully and accept that discretionary spending such as clothing, hairdressing, holidays, TV subscriptions, etc are no longer possible.

I used to receive the Warm Home Discount of £140 per year due to meeting the criteria for the wider group (low income) and it made such a difference to whether I could manage to heat my rented, fuel inefficient home. Then the government changed the rules and I no longer qualified, just in time for the massive increases in fuel costs. I'll receive my State Pension next year, a year later than I was originally promised, will become a taxpayer again, lose my Council Tax Reduction and now I'm to lose the £200 WFA. My 'comfortable' retirement that I planned and paid for during my working years is disappearing, bit by bit and I can only hope that the threatened huge increases in social housing rents don't push me and many like me into having to make the real choice between rent, heating or food.