Cancelled Holiday due to a Faint

Danny30

Hi all, I did write about this on wrong forum so have re-inserted here.

Basically my daughter fainted pre take off and Jet2 wouldn't allow her go fly so my wife, 2 children and I had to disembark from the plane which has now through various circumstances led us to lose our holidays. In addition, we had purchased travel insurance, however looking back at the answers my wife filled out, she listed previous conditions as 'no' on all of us despite it mentioning to list out any in and out patient appointments over the last two years which she somehow missed. We don't have an conditions but I suspect the lack of mentioning any medical appointments will invalidate the insurance.

My next and only option is then with Jet2 who have already refused a refund and we are unhappy with the way that Jet2 handled the whole situation. Below is a list of all the issues encountered with them. 

1. 14 year daughter fainted before take off and was asked to leave the plane which resulted in all of us leaving but I mentioned it was due to nerves so not 100% sure they needed to take her of the plane (though I can see why they would).

2. The cabin crew said not to worry as we would be put on a later flight. Paramedics also attended and said it was just a faint and no need for a doctors letter or 72 hour wait until flying again which airlines sometimes try to do. They even said to tell Jet2 to contact them directly if required to confirm just a Faint and not to let them say to wait for 72 hours.

3. After leaving the plane and eventually heading back to Jet2 customer service desk, the lady confirms that despite what the paramedics mentioned she was going on the advice of the hostess instead (because they saw the actual faint) of the paramedics about the fainting and we would need to wait 72 hours before being able to fly which on a 5 night trip meant no holiday.

4. The lady at the desk said not to worry as our holiday would be rebooked in and that she had spoken to Jet2 24/7 who were aware of the situation and would rebook the trip for us. She said that there would be plenty of options as well as we approaching the end of the season and she told us that we can even call Jet2 24/7 in the car on the way home.

5. On the way home, my wife does call Jet2 24/7 and no one knew the situation as the lady at the desk earlier had claimed but they managed to find a note on the system. They then proceeded to only offer that we repay for flights after 72 hours and then we could use the last 2 days of accommodation. Not a viable option at all.

My question is was it

1. Justified to ask my daughter to leave due to fainting, there were some spasm movements when she fainted but I already have dealt with exactly this issue with my son through outpatient appointments with a private GP and know it's just the way some people faint and is in no way a seizure which I did mention to them. 

2. Was it justified to make us wait 72 hours before flying again of which they blamed Stansted Airport authority rules for. 

3. To assure us we would be okay and put on a later flight or rebooked and then to when we call up, offer us nothing. 

As far as I know and have read up, fainting is apparently the most common occurrence of any medial condition and to me should not be a reason to leave a flight and not be allowed to fly for 3 days. The jerking movements were very light and as I mentioned to the hostess on the plane, I had been to see a specialist for the exact same thing for my son who said it was nothing of concern and I did mention this is how some people faint which I did mention to the hostess and jet2 customer service so they didn't think it was a seizure of any kind. 

Sorry for the long response but any advice would be welcome as we are looking at losing the holiday and the money due to a faint which is not uncommon due to the the lower pressure on planes.

This was meant to be my wife's and I first holiday in 15 years and our children's first ever. Losing £2500 would mean no holiday for a while. Regarding the insurance, we know it was out fault for not filling out the application correctly which is even more frustrating. 

la531983

Danny30 said:

Regarding the insurance, we know it was out fault for not filling out the application correctly 

Yup, but sounds like you are wanting to blame Jet2 for everything too. 

As for the rules of being allowed to fly again immediately, they wont want to put someone on a flight hours later if they still arent well, airplane diversions for any reason cost tens of thousands of pounds, I can perfectly understand why this rule exists.

MattMattMattUK

Danny30 said:

Hi all, I did write about this on wrong forum so have re-inserted here.

Basically my daughter fainted pre take off and Jet2 wouldn't allow her go fly so my wife, 2 children and I had to disembark from the plane which has now through various circumstances led us to lose our holidays. In addition, we had purchased travel insurance, however looking back at the answers my wife filled out, she listed previous conditions as 'no' on all of us despite it mentioning to list out any in and out patient appointments over the last two years which she somehow missed. We don't have an conditions but I suspect the lack of mentioning any medical appointments will invalidate the insurance.

My next and only option is then with Jet2 who have already refused a refund and we are unhappy with the way that Jet2 handled the whole situation. Below is a list of all the issues encountered with them. 

1. 14 year daughter fainted before take off and was asked to leave the plane which resulted in all of us leaving but I mentioned it was due to nerves so not 100% sure they needed to take her of the plane (though I can see why they would).

2. The cabin crew said not to worry as we would be put on a later flight. Paramedics also attended and said it was just a faint and no need for a doctors letter or 72 hour wait until flying again which airlines sometimes try to do. They even said to tell Jet2 to contact them directly if required to confirm just a Faint and not to let them say to wait for 72 hours.

3. After leaving the plane and eventually heading back to Jet2 customer service desk, the lady confirms that despite what the paramedics mentioned she was going on the advice of the hostess instead (because they saw the actual faint) of the paramedics about the fainting and we would need to wait 72 hours before being able to fly which on a 5 night trip meant no holiday.

4. The lady at the desk said not to worry as our holiday would be rebooked in and that she had spoken to Jet2 24/7 who were aware of the situation and would rebook the trip for us. She said that there would be plenty of options as well as we approaching the end of the season and she told us that we can even call Jet2 24/7 in the car on the way home.

5. On the way home, my wife does call Jet2 24/7 and no one knew the situation as the lady at the desk earlier had claimed but they managed to find a note on the system. They then proceeded to only offer that we repay for flights after 72 hours and then we could use the last 2 days of accommodation. Not a viable option at all.

My question is was it

1. Justified to ask my daughter to leave due to fainting, there were some spasm movements when she fainted but I already have dealt with exactly this issue with my son through outpatient appointments with a private GP and know it's just the way some people faint and is in no way a seizure which I did mention to them. 

Yes, it was justified. Some people do not "just faint", the lack of seizure does not mean that someone losing consciousness and spasming is safe to fly.

Danny30 said:

2. Was it justified to make us wait 72 hours before flying again of which they blamed Stansted Airport authority rules for. 

Yes, airlines and airports can have their own rules, so long as those are clear, published and do not contravene legislation then that is perfectly acceptable. 

Danny30 said:

3. To assure us we would be okay and put on a later flight or rebooked and then to when we call up, offer us nothing. 

It is not great from a customer service perspective, but they are not required to offer you anything either. 

Danny30 said:

As far as I know and have read up, fainting is apparently the most common occurrence of any medial condition and to me should not be a reason to leave a flight and not be allowed to fly for 3 days. The jerking movements were very light and as I mentioned to the hostess on the plane, I had been to see a specialist for the exact same thing for my son who said it was nothing of concern and I did mention this is how some people faint which I did mention to the hostess and jet2 customer service so they didn't think it was a seizure of any kind. 

Your daughter had a medical incident on the plane, for that reason it was deemed unsafe for her to fly, that is a perfectly reasonable position for the airline to take. Syncope can be a symptom of many things, ranging from the rather mundane to the incredibly serious, the airline are required to avoid medical issues in flights, they did nothing wrong. 

Danny30 said:

Sorry for the long response but any advice would be welcome as we are looking at losing the holiday and the money due to a faint which is not uncommon due to the the lower pressure on planes.

It is uncommon. 

Danny30 said:

This was meant to be my wife's and I first holiday in 15 years and our children's first ever. Losing £2500 would mean no holiday for a while. Regarding the insurance, we know it was out fault for not filling out the application correctly which is even more frustrating. 

The insurance application is the issue, everything else is irrelevant. 

You mention your son having had medical investigations for his syncope issues, those are irrelevant to the situation at hand. Had your daughter had previous episodes of syncope, were those being investigated, and did she have any outpatient visits, those are the only two questions that are relevant, if the answer is no to both then there is unlikely to be an issue with insurance as your son was not the one who had an episode of syncope that caused you to have to disembarked. You need to raise the claim with your insurer and see what they say, be totally honest with them. 

Danny30

MattMattMattUK said:

Danny30 said:

Hi all, I did write about this on wrong forum so have re-inserted here.

Basically my daughter fainted pre take off and Jet2 wouldn't allow her go fly so my wife, 2 children and I had to disembark from the plane which has now through various circumstances led us to lose our holidays. In addition, we had purchased travel insurance, however looking back at the answers my wife filled out, she listed previous conditions as 'no' on all of us despite it mentioning to list out any in and out patient appointments over the last two years which she somehow missed. We don't have an conditions but I suspect the lack of mentioning any medical appointments will invalidate the insurance.

My next and only option is then with Jet2 who have already refused a refund and we are unhappy with the way that Jet2 handled the whole situation. Below is a list of all the issues encountered with them. 

1. 14 year daughter fainted before take off and was asked to leave the plane which resulted in all of us leaving but I mentioned it was due to nerves so not 100% sure they needed to take her of the plane (though I can see why they would).

2. The cabin crew said not to worry as we would be put on a later flight. Paramedics also attended and said it was just a faint and no need for a doctors letter or 72 hour wait until flying again which airlines sometimes try to do. They even said to tell Jet2 to contact them directly if required to confirm just a Faint and not to let them say to wait for 72 hours.

3. After leaving the plane and eventually heading back to Jet2 customer service desk, the lady confirms that despite what the paramedics mentioned she was going on the advice of the hostess instead (because they saw the actual faint) of the paramedics about the fainting and we would need to wait 72 hours before being able to fly which on a 5 night trip meant no holiday.

4. The lady at the desk said not to worry as our holiday would be rebooked in and that she had spoken to Jet2 24/7 who were aware of the situation and would rebook the trip for us. She said that there would be plenty of options as well as we approaching the end of the season and she told us that we can even call Jet2 24/7 in the car on the way home.

5. On the way home, my wife does call Jet2 24/7 and no one knew the situation as the lady at the desk earlier had claimed but they managed to find a note on the system. They then proceeded to only offer that we repay for flights after 72 hours and then we could use the last 2 days of accommodation. Not a viable option at all.

My question is was it

1. Justified to ask my daughter to leave due to fainting, there were some spasm movements when she fainted but I already have dealt with exactly this issue with my son through outpatient appointments with a private GP and know it's just the way some people faint and is in no way a seizure which I did mention to them. 

Yes, it was justified. Some people do not "just faint", the lack of seizure does not mean that someone losing consciousness and spasming is safe to fly.

Danny30 said:

2. Was it justified to make us wait 72 hours before flying again of which they blamed Stansted Airport authority rules for. 

Yes, airlines and airports can have their own rules, so long as those are clear, published and do not contravene legislation then that is perfectly acceptable. 

Danny30 said:

3. To assure us we would be okay and put on a later flight or rebooked and then to when we call up, offer us nothing. 

It is not great from a customer service perspective, but they are not required to offer you anything either. 

Danny30 said:

As far as I know and have read up, fainting is apparently the most common occurrence of any medial condition and to me should not be a reason to leave a flight and not be allowed to fly for 3 days. The jerking movements were very light and as I mentioned to the hostess on the plane, I had been to see a specialist for the exact same thing for my son who said it was nothing of concern and I did mention this is how some people faint which I did mention to the hostess and jet2 customer service so they didn't think it was a seizure of any kind. 

Your daughter had a medical incident on the plane, for that reason it was deemed unsafe for her to fly, that is a perfectly reasonable position for the airline to take. Syncope can be a symptom of many things, ranging from the rather mundane to the incredibly serious, the airline are required to avoid medical issues in flights, they did nothing wrong. 

Danny30 said:

Sorry for the long response but any advice would be welcome as we are looking at losing the holiday and the money due to a faint which is not uncommon due to the the lower pressure on planes.

It is uncommon. 

Danny30 said:

This was meant to be my wife's and I first holiday in 15 years and our children's first ever. Losing £2500 would mean no holiday for a while. Regarding the insurance, we know it was out fault for not filling out the application correctly which is even more frustrating. 

The insurance application is the issue, everything else is irrelevant. 

You mention your son having had medical investigations for his syncope issues, those are irrelevant to the situation at hand. Had your daughter had previous episodes of syncope, were those being investigated, and did she have any outpatient visits, those are the only two questions that are relevant, if the answer is no to both then there is unlikely to be an issue with insurance as your son was not the one who had an episode of syncope that caused you to have to disembarked. You need to raise the claim with your insurer and see what they say, be totally honest with them. 

Understood, Thank you for the detailed response.

Regarding the last point re insurance. My daughter had no previous history of syncope and had never fainted previously. Issue is that I assumed the travel-insurance company (Asda) would just void the whole policy as we didn't list all the in and outpatient visits over the last 2 years as supposed to, even though out of a mistake rather than deliberately? 

MattMattMattUK

Danny30 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Danny30 said:

Hi all, I did write about this on wrong forum so have re-inserted here.

Basically my daughter fainted pre take off and Jet2 wouldn't allow her go fly so my wife, 2 children and I had to disembark from the plane which has now through various circumstances led us to lose our holidays. In addition, we had purchased travel insurance, however looking back at the answers my wife filled out, she listed previous conditions as 'no' on all of us despite it mentioning to list out any in and out patient appointments over the last two years which she somehow missed. We don't have an conditions but I suspect the lack of mentioning any medical appointments will invalidate the insurance.

My next and only option is then with Jet2 who have already refused a refund and we are unhappy with the way that Jet2 handled the whole situation. Below is a list of all the issues encountered with them. 

1. 14 year daughter fainted before take off and was asked to leave the plane which resulted in all of us leaving but I mentioned it was due to nerves so not 100% sure they needed to take her of the plane (though I can see why they would).

2. The cabin crew said not to worry as we would be put on a later flight. Paramedics also attended and said it was just a faint and no need for a doctors letter or 72 hour wait until flying again which airlines sometimes try to do. They even said to tell Jet2 to contact them directly if required to confirm just a Faint and not to let them say to wait for 72 hours.

3. After leaving the plane and eventually heading back to Jet2 customer service desk, the lady confirms that despite what the paramedics mentioned she was going on the advice of the hostess instead (because they saw the actual faint) of the paramedics about the fainting and we would need to wait 72 hours before being able to fly which on a 5 night trip meant no holiday.

4. The lady at the desk said not to worry as our holiday would be rebooked in and that she had spoken to Jet2 24/7 who were aware of the situation and would rebook the trip for us. She said that there would be plenty of options as well as we approaching the end of the season and she told us that we can even call Jet2 24/7 in the car on the way home.

5. On the way home, my wife does call Jet2 24/7 and no one knew the situation as the lady at the desk earlier had claimed but they managed to find a note on the system. They then proceeded to only offer that we repay for flights after 72 hours and then we could use the last 2 days of accommodation. Not a viable option at all.

My question is was it

1. Justified to ask my daughter to leave due to fainting, there were some spasm movements when she fainted but I already have dealt with exactly this issue with my son through outpatient appointments with a private GP and know it's just the way some people faint and is in no way a seizure which I did mention to them. 

Yes, it was justified. Some people do not "just faint", the lack of seizure does not mean that someone losing consciousness and spasming is safe to fly.

Danny30 said:

2. Was it justified to make us wait 72 hours before flying again of which they blamed Stansted Airport authority rules for. 

Yes, airlines and airports can have their own rules, so long as those are clear, published and do not contravene legislation then that is perfectly acceptable. 

Danny30 said:

3. To assure us we would be okay and put on a later flight or rebooked and then to when we call up, offer us nothing. 

It is not great from a customer service perspective, but they are not required to offer you anything either. 

Danny30 said:

As far as I know and have read up, fainting is apparently the most common occurrence of any medial condition and to me should not be a reason to leave a flight and not be allowed to fly for 3 days. The jerking movements were very light and as I mentioned to the hostess on the plane, I had been to see a specialist for the exact same thing for my son who said it was nothing of concern and I did mention this is how some people faint which I did mention to the hostess and jet2 customer service so they didn't think it was a seizure of any kind. 

Your daughter had a medical incident on the plane, for that reason it was deemed unsafe for her to fly, that is a perfectly reasonable position for the airline to take. Syncope can be a symptom of many things, ranging from the rather mundane to the incredibly serious, the airline are required to avoid medical issues in flights, they did nothing wrong. 

Danny30 said:

Sorry for the long response but any advice would be welcome as we are looking at losing the holiday and the money due to a faint which is not uncommon due to the the lower pressure on planes.

It is uncommon. 

Danny30 said:

This was meant to be my wife's and I first holiday in 15 years and our children's first ever. Losing £2500 would mean no holiday for a while. Regarding the insurance, we know it was out fault for not filling out the application correctly which is even more frustrating. 

The insurance application is the issue, everything else is irrelevant. 

You mention your son having had medical investigations for his syncope issues, those are irrelevant to the situation at hand. Had your daughter had previous episodes of syncope, were those being investigated, and did she have any outpatient visits, those are the only two questions that are relevant, if the answer is no to both then there is unlikely to be an issue with insurance as your son was not the one who had an episode of syncope that caused you to have to disembarked. You need to raise the claim with your insurer and see what they say, be totally honest with them. 

Understood, Thank you for the detailed response.

Regarding the last point re insurance. My daughter had no previous history of syncope and had never fainted previously. Issue is that I assumed the travel-insurance company (Asda) would just void the whole policy as we didn't list all the in and outpatient visits over the last 2 years as supposed to, even though out of a mistake rather than deliberately? 

They could void the whole policy and refund the fee, but they would be unlikely to. They could charge you an increased premium to bring the policy up to the cost it would have been had the issues been declared. Whether it is deliberate or through negligence is irrelevant, the point would be that information was not provided and if your son was the reason you were disembarked it would invalidate any claim. 

However, and this is the important part, your son had those issues but he is not the reason you were disembarked, your daughter is. When they as for evidence, it will be the paramedics report, probably other evidence as well and a letter from your daughter's doctor confirming that she did not have any existing or previous issues. 

Follow the process, submit a claim with your insurers, be honest and see what happens. 

TELLIT01

Airlines will have their own protocols in place to cover medical incidents.  They may well be stricter than a paramedic believes is necessary, but they don't want to risk another episode in flight and having to divert.  In that respect I don't think they have done anything wrong.  This really is something for the travel insurer.

eskbanker

The mere fact that paramedics attended at all (who called them?) would presumably support the airline's stance that it would be prudent and reasonable to abide by their 72 hour policy, although it wouldn't surprise me if airlines would require medical status to be provided by actual medics (i.e. doctors) rather than the para- ones.

silvercar

You may be ok with your travel insurance. When I had a claim recently they required a form from my GP, that detailed any conditions relative to the claim issue. They didn’t ask for other issues (though they would have been entitled to do so) they certainly didn’t ask for medical conditions of other people on the policy. 

bagand96

Danny30 said:

1. 14 year daughter fainted before take off and was asked to leave the plane which resulted in all of us leaving but I mentioned it was due to nerves so not 100% sure they needed to take her of the plane (though I can see why they would).

The airlines are in a difficult position and have to make a call with little time or information on hand. Whilst you may have been confident it was just a feint due nerves the crew have no way of knowing that for sure. 

Worse case they allow a passenger to fly, at some point during the flight a more serious seizure occurs and you have a seriously situation with very little medical help available immediately. They then get accused of being irresponsible in allowing the passenger to fly having seen a feint previously. 

I also think you need to at least try an insurance claim. You won't know for sure how much information they will want until you try. 

You could escalate a complaint with Jet2 perhaps over the mis-information you received, but ultimately anything from them would be a goodwill gesture.

NoodleDoodleMan

"Syncope can be a symptom of many things, ranging from the rather mundane to the incredibly serious, the airline are required to avoid medical issues in flights, they did nothing wrong."

 

A great grandparent collapsed and died relatively young - following investigation the cause of death was officially recorded as Syncope.

It can be very serious, obviously.

Exodi

NoodleDoodleMan said:

"Syncope can be a symptom of many things, ranging from the rather mundane to the incredibly serious, the airline are required to avoid medical issues in flights, they did nothing wrong."

 

A great grandparent collapsed and died relatively young - following investigation the cause of death was officially recorded as Syncope.

It can be very serious, obviously.

I think that was MattMattMattUK 's point in response to the OP's downplaying of the seriousness of fainting and suggestions of how common it is.

I've personally yet to ever see someone faint in my lifetime.