Money Moral Dilemma: Should I keep the perks from my grandma's bank account?

kimwp

Actually why stop at giving her the cashback. Take her bill money, buy cake ingredients, make cakes and sell them to your colleagues (don't forget to get a food licence), use the proceeds to put a deposit on a food truck, sell more cakes at food festivals and build a booming cake empire. Make a house out of cake for her to live in, with a strawberry jam heating system and glace cherry chairs. Then she has no bills to pay and everybody is happy except the postman who can't get the letters through the fondant letterbox. Does not putting that effort in to save her money make you a terrible person?

Hoenir

 Just remember one day you might be old and infirm. Needing assistance from relatives. What goes around comes around. 

friolento

keithyno.1 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

In the real world away from an MSE "Moral Dilemma" sounds like you could be complicit in money laundering.  

Money laundering??! Are you serious? We're talking about an old lady who keeps her savings in cash under the mattress (or wherever she prefers to hide them) and the payment of her household bills here. 

Even though we don't know anything about the family who are the subject of this MMD I think it's highly unlikely she's shifting cash into her grandson's bank account for 'laundering' on behalf of a drugs gang or a terrorist organisation or some much outfit! 

It would be interesting to know how grandma is receiving her state pension (assuming she is indeed over state pension age), and also how she came / comes by the cash she has.

Hoenir

friolento said:

keithyno.1 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

In the real world away from an MSE "Moral Dilemma" sounds like you could be complicit in money laundering.  

Money laundering??! Are you serious? We're talking about an old lady who keeps her savings in cash under the mattress (or wherever she prefers to hide them) and the payment of her household bills here. 

Even though we don't know anything about the family who are the subject of this MMD I think it's highly unlikely she's shifting cash into her grandson's bank account for 'laundering' on behalf of a drugs gang or a terrorist organisation or some much outfit! 

It would be interesting to know how grandma is receiving her state pension (assuming she is indeed over state pension age), and also how she came / comes by the cash she has.

Withdraw it at the Post Office. As is the case with other benefits for people without bank acconts. . 

ripongrammargirl

I can’t understand how your Gran does not have a bank account at her age? How does her pension get paid? How has she paid bills before you came along and did this? Why are her children (your mum/dad?) not sorting this out and it’s skipped that generation to come to you? Why do you not have a Financial Power Of Attorney for this situation as it could be seen as money laundering, fraud, theft, and all sorts of sh*t could hit the fan if dementia or terminal illness came into play. Get a POA immediately (easy enough online via gov.uk website) or just sort out a bank account in her name that only she can access, set up with direct debits etc, and keep an eye on it if she asks, as you should not be privy to her finances/paying her bills unless there are health issues (and that needs a medical POA, so just get both together) but then it needs to be legally documented. Even though all banks have closed there are still helplines to speak to staff regarding finances and paying of bills. Technically you are stealing her money through the interest the account is making and you don’t want to be labelled the black sheep of the family by being accused of this. Sort it out one way or the other as suggested as you really should not be dealing with her monetary issues without the correct documentation in place.

WeePet

MMD includes "I've set up a bank account in my name and pay her bills from it - she gives me the cash." I interpret this as the Gran only supplies enough cash to pay the bills and possibly at or around the time each bill is due.  MMD also includes "Each month I transfer money into the account to meet the minimum monthly pay-in, then when I transfer my money back, I also take the interest and cashback" I interpret this as the grandchild is depositing their own money into the account and therefore maintaining the balance in the account.

Whilst all the advice to establish legal authority to allow the grandchild to administer the gran's finances should be followed my answer to the MMD (per my above interpretation) is that the interest is probably due to the grandchild as it is paid on their money in the account but the cashback is due to the gran.

bikaga

On the surface, it's a mixed bag - I'm assuming the interest mostly comes from the money you pay in, not from your gran's bill money.

BUT. You wouldn't be getting it without having direct debits set up for her, I assume. And more than that, you definitely should not steal her cashback. Because the cashback is only there because you pay HER bills with HER money.

This could be interpreted as elderly abuse - you're benefitting from your grandmother and taking money that is hers by right for yourself. It's stealing. It doesn't matter that you're doing her a favour because you've not told her you're keeping some of the money that's due to her for yourself. You've not even made her aware that she could have this benefit. (If you told her, she might just tell you to keep it - or to keep it on the account to attract more interest, which she also doesn't know about.)

And that's without considering you've set up an account in your name to pay her bills that she's not associated with at all.

If a bank worker knew about this, they would be obliged to report it as potential exploitation of a vulnerable person (you're not only in control of your gran's finances, you're using her money to profit off without her knowledge). I suggest you change your MO asap before that happens.

And @MSE_Kelvin, this really should not be up here. This is not a question of morals but of financial conduct. Please consider educating whoever submitted this question before it has repercussions they didn't expect.

fabulous_at_any_age

It belongs to your grandma. It's her money, her cash back, her interest. If you are keeping it then it's stealing and stealing from your grandma is despicable.

WeePet

bikaga states "You wouldn't be getting it [interest] without having direct debits set up for her, I assume. And more than that, you definitely should not steal her cashback. Because the cashback is only there because you pay HER bills with HER money."

You can also assume that neither interest nor cashback would be paid without the grandchild making the minimum monthly deposits from their own money.  A bit of a chicken and egg situation.  As I said earlier "interest is probably due to the grandchild as it is paid on their money in the account but the cashback is due to the gran."

jenniewb

What would I do/suggest?

I'd first work out the interest amount- you'll need to know this. This may vary so have the calculation to hand, on a basic bank account it can be pretty small, I think 5% is pretty much the max and it can be as low as 0.01%. This isn't a daily amount, it's worked out over a year, work out the average amount of time by how long your Grandmother's money sits in your account before you pay it over to whatever bills you have set up.
 
It won't sit dormant in your account for the entire month so your 5% (assuming it's this) would be worked out for how long it is in your account. Put it on a graph if you want, bar chart, line graph, whatever you think helps make things easier for her to understand, in some cases those who worry about the complexities of paying bills on time or digitally can struggle with numbers and making sense of data when it's not written down or in a format they can comprehend, so your own infographics could be really helpful here in conveying the message. 

Once you have that figure, go back to your grandmother, be upfront and explain the situation. It's obviously affecting you enough for it to stick in your mind and the longer things go on the louder that stuck part will be. Should anything happen to your grandmother this will begin to really tear at you.
 
Explain to your grandmother what you are concerned about, explain that you make money from everything in your account, whatever its source as does anyone else.
Make it clear that it's not that you've invested her money in some money making scheme, it's not possible to opt out of it with our account.
Then explain that you've worked out how much interest you have acquired on behalf of her money. It could be £5 it could be £5, but make it clear. If you are struggling to get the numbers right or they vary per month for whatever reason you could call up your bank and try to get the monthly amount which would vary but be plottable on a graph or on a list. 

As her if she'd like the money, straight up. Explain it is as a result of you having her money in your account so that you can pay her bills, but that you are confused as to if you feel OK keeping the money or not. It could be that she's already aware and is more than happy for you to keep it as you've done her a big favor by taking the anxiety out of her hands.
She can make up her own mind in her own time; don't force answers of her immediately, leave it with her to decide but make the figures clear, she might not understand how interest works and may confuse it with something like stocks and shares or bonds and be expecting more than actually exists. If she's giving you for example £500 a month for her bills, and that sits in your account for 75% of the month this isn't going to be hundreds, maybe in an entire year or few years but not immediately and this may not be something that makes any difference to her, some people don't care about money if they have enough already, or feel they want to show their gratitude. But don't play the guilt card "I could do with that money if you don't want it" is a guilt trip, "that would make such a difference to my flat/studies/dog..." etc, is a guilt trip, "this has been a headache to sort out but I would do anything for you" is a guilt trip, yes you have gone out of your way to help her, but I'd bet she'd do the same for you if she knew more about something you struggled with. That sort of relationship is based on love and humanity, it's not based on materialism and money, it would be a shame if it became a relationship that put obligation and want above love. Be honest but don't manipulate her response to direct her to spend or give the money in a direction she otherwise wouldn't do.