Home being repossessed - complicated issue

GDB2222

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

What if agent is not legally collecting rent and deposit? What does he really need to act as LL's agent? How does he legally prove without a doubt he's acting lawfully?

We are suspecting, again, suspecting as again there's no way to get any coherent info from agent, that he's milking the opportunity and collecting/keeping rent for himself

In that case, what would be my friends course of action?

If I were your friend, I'd let the agent know that I'm withholding two weeks rent, as the deposit hasn't been protected and I'm worried I'll lose it when the repossession happens. But I'd make it clear that I'll resume paying the rent after the two weeks. 

However, I'd pay if I thought the agent would beat me up if I don't pay.  

Hoenir

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

What if agent is not legally collecting rent and deposit? What does he really need to act as LL's agent? How does he legally prove without a doubt he's acting lawfully?

We are suspecting, again, suspecting as again there's no way to get any coherent info from agent, that he's milking the opportunity and collecting/keeping rent for himself

In that case, what would be my friends course of action?

That's entirely up to Mark. Withholding the rent forces his hand. You'd expect him to quietly vanish into the night at some point. 

ThisIsWeird

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

What if agent is not legally collecting rent and deposit? What does he really need to act as LL's agent? How does he legally prove without a doubt he's acting lawfully?
We are suspecting, again, suspecting as again there's no way to get any coherent info from agent, that he's milking the opportunity and collecting/keeping rent for himself
In that case, what would be my friends course of action?

Your friend should choose their battles carefully.

Yes, it sounds dodgy - but it might not be (not completely, at least). So, by all means report your suspicions to the LA. And do as Penny said above; "Mark must be registered with one of two property redress schemes: The Property Ombudsman or The Property Redress Scheme. The local authority can fine letting agents who are not registered with either up to £5000." And check the (two?) deposit protection schemes to make certain your dep isn't protected.

But your friend's main battle is to not be out of pocket to this 'agent'. And ask the LA and Cab and Shelter about what you should do if you suspect an improper agency. Do your groundwork.

Try and find out the likely repossession date - it seems that opening some letters is 'ok' from what folk say.

Absolutely, your friend should stop paying at an early enough stage to cover the deposit. Could you accompany your friend when they visit to make their weekly payment? If so, have your phone surreptitiously set to record. Up to you and your friend how to handle this, but it would be perfectly reasonable to ask about the deposit, and how this will be returned - ie give the agent a chance to explain, tho' you will, of course, be pre-informed on the situation; give the guy enough rope to whatsit. If the agent says that your deposit will be returned on or after the eviction date, explain the simpler arrangement of simply not paying for the last 2 weeks of rent. If the cove complains about this, repeatedly ask 'why' this isn't a good idea? Also then mention that you cannot find your deposit in any approved scheme - "which one did you use?"

Based on how the 'agent' responds to this, especially your belief that the deposit has not been protected and that this is a 'significant breach' for which you are entitled to claim, you can then broach the matter of further breaches of tenancy agreements, such as whether they had the property Gas Safety Cert'd every year? Perhaps adding that you 'are seeking legal advice on these issues'. Make sure to capture all his responses. Say all this calmly and matter-of-factly, because these are 'matters of fact'.

Any hint of threat or aggression, you may wish to tell the person you'll need to inform the police.

You need to first inform yourselves. Then decide what to say. And record the conversation.

_Penny_Dreadful

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Who is Mark? Was Mark someone who was living in the property and acting as a liaison between the other occupants and the landlord or is Mark someone who works at a letting agency? How does your friend pay money to Mark, bank transfer? If so what is the name of the account the money is transferred to? 

Mark is LL's agent. He has his own business which involves letting services, pawn shop and loans.

My friends pay by cash every Saturday in advance for next week ahead, in person and receives paper receipt on every payment

Does your friend have rent book? Where rent is payable weekly, and the payment does not include a substantial amount for meals, the landlord must provide a rent book or equivalent. Failure to comply with this is an offence under s.7 Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. 

As a letting agent in England (I’m assuming that’s where your friend lives) Mark must be registered with one of two property redress schemes: The Property Ombudsman or The Property Redress Scheme. The local authority can fine letting agents who are not registered with either up to £5000. 

It’s no use Mark saying he does know the landlord’s whereabouts because he must supply his client’s details to the tenant if the tenant requests the landlord’s contact details under section 1(1) of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 within 21 days of the request. 

One last thing, does your friend have an address for the serving of notices that is in England or Wales? Usually it is supplied in the tenancy agreement. No address means no rent is due until the landlord supplies one. 

My advice to your friend would be to contact the local authority asap about his imminent homelessness. The local authority should be able to assist your friend with the points I raised above as well. I’d also suggest setting aside the rent and not giving Mark anymore money for the time being. Lastly, your friend and any other occupants should make the lender aware of their presence. 

I used to pay a rent for my friend a few times when he was working overtime and couldn't do it in person. Agent had something that resembled rent book from which he was tearing apart a piece of paper that was signed and confirmed rent has been paid. Not sure if my friend has something similar at his address or the fact agent has something similar is enough.

As said many times before there was no paperwork exchanged when he moved in so I'll guess notice is supposed to be served to agents address and not LL's address as assuming agent is telling truth, neither him or my friend know it.

We will try to officially ask from LLs address under Tenant Act, providing that it is supplied, what else can we ask for? Can we ask what is going on with repossession proceedings? Or it may be really that agent is not being updated which personally I don't believe is true?

What you are describing doesn’t sound like a rent book. 

I said that usually the address for the serving of notices is in the tenancy agreement not that it has to be in the tenancy agreement. Has your friend ever received the address for the serving of notices? The address must be in England or Wales so when a landlord resides abroad the address for the serving of notices is usually the letting agent’s address. As I said in my previous post, if no address for the serving of notices has ever been provided to your friend the legally no rent is due until your friend is provided with one. 

You seem to be focussing on the wrong things. Whatever is happening, or not happening, between the landlord and letting agent is a red herring. Whilst your friend could request the landlord’s contact details to what end? Knowing his contact details in the Philippines would be as much use as a chocolate teapot. At best it would give the local authority a stick with which to beat Mark when he fails to provide them. 

One way or another your friend will be moving in the near future. His time would be better spent searching for a new home and using the withheld rent to put down a deposit somewhere else. As previously said, he should also contact the local authority for assistance. 

RHemmings

GDB2222 said:

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

What if agent is not legally collecting rent and deposit? What does he really need to act as LL's agent? How does he legally prove without a doubt he's acting lawfully?

We are suspecting, again, suspecting as again there's no way to get any coherent info from agent, that he's milking the opportunity and collecting/keeping rent for himself

In that case, what would be my friends course of action? 

However, I'd pay if I thought the agent would beat me up if I don't pay.  

Given the description of Mark's businesses, I wouldn't be surprised if the description 'loan shark' applies. In the shoes of the OP, I would be careful. I'm not saying not to follow advice given here - but be aware of any possibility for things going in this direction. 

The OP knows Mark in person, and we don't. 

Bitsandbobs_2

A little update 

Went to the agent.

Can we have a copy of rent agreement as my friend never had one? Oh there's no such an agreement but there must me a lodger's agreement somewhere, but we can't find it.

Can you tell us where was the deposit secured? What deposit? It wasn't a deposit it was just so my friend doesn't have to pay for his last 2 weeks.

Supposedly agent is just a rent drop-off point and then passes the rent to LL's family member or members as he kept changing his mind as once said it was John who lives 160 miles away from us then that it was one woman whose name he didn't even remember...when asked about their whereabouts, number or any contact info to help me potentially get in touch with landlord he said he doesn't have one as they just literally just pop in into his office without any notice every now and then and just collect the money

He literally kicked us when we asked all.of these and while pretending to be looking for some info he could actually give us, failed to do so...

ThisIsWeird

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

A little update 

Went to the agent.

Can we have a copy of rent agreement as my friend never had one? Oh there's no such an agreement but there must me a lodger's agreement somewhere, but we can't find it.

Can you tell us where was the deposit secured? What deposit? It wasn't a deposit it was just so my friend doesn't have to pay for his last 2 weeks.

Supposedly agent is just a rent drop-off point and then passes the rent to LL's family member or members as he kept changing his mind as once said it was John who lives 160 miles away from us then that it was one woman whose name he didn't even remember...when asked about their whereabouts, number or any contact info to help me potentially get in touch with landlord he said he doesn't have one as they just literally just pop in into his office without any notice every now and then and just collect the money

He literally kicked us when we asked all.of these and while pretending to be looking for some info he could actually give us, failed to do so...

Wow. Excellent - you have them completely over a barrel.

I mean, you did record all of this as I suggested, didn't you?

Ah. Oh dear.

propertyrental

Asked earlier, but was he given, in writing, an address for the serving of notices on the landlord, in England or Wales?' If not he legally does not have to pay rent.

Landlord and Tenant Act 1987  section 48

Schwarzwald

i think few doubt that this is a perfect LL <> tenant situation.
it doesnt sound right and proper. also the EA's conduct doesnt sound professional and by the book.

as other said previously and also i said it: chose your battles and what are you trying to gain here - REALISTICALLY?

Your friend, or whoever this thread is ultimately about, will most likely need to move.
you were given advise how to best protect against losing the £240 deposit / rent prepayment.
your friends doesnt seem to have any paperwork, neither for the tenancy nor for the deposit/rent prepayment.
plus, no offence, your friends doenst sound like he is overly organized and financially speaking, if he cares so much about the £240 pre-payment, does he have excess financial savings to spend money on any court filings?
courts and suing costs money, might not always be right if you think about it, but that is how it works.

IMO, you would do your friend a much bigger favor by taking the advise you were given in this thread and commence assissting him in finding alternative accommodation within your friend's budget. Given where we are in the market, this by itself might be a difficult undertaking and a great way to assist.

if you can file complaints about the LL and/or EA's conduct, that is a cherry on top, but you need to get your priorities right and stop being fixated about the LL/EA's impropert conduct.
 

Bitsandbobs_2

Other things are being taken care of, it's not that we're not doing nothing and just wait for repossession finally happening and then cry to council about being potentially made homeless

He has a few thousands of financial cushion, but 240 pounds is a lot of money so he's thinking about his options at the moment

We were after advice about the whole situation and we're glad and appreciate we've received a lot of help here. 

propertyrental said:

Asked earlier, but was he given, in writing, an address for the serving of notices on the landlord, in England or Wales?' If not he legally does not have to pay rent.

Landlord and Tenant Act 1987  section 48

No, he wasn't given any forwarding address

We will be in touch with local law centre dealing solely with housing issues right on Tuesday morning