Home being repossessed - complicated issue

ThisIsWeird

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

So basically agent can do whatever they want and nothing can be done about it cause it's all about LL who want AWOL? Even if all money is going through his hands? My friend has all receipts for paid deposit and weekly rent, as he gets a signed receipt for every payment made.

Also, don't know where it's coming from but my friend is not trying to run away from any of his responsibilities or anything, once eviction is served, he will move out on a day, it's just a shady agent that does how he please and seems to be untouchable

I suspect, quite strongly, that something could be done about this absent LL, and your friend can get advice about this if they like. And, to be blunt, something should be done, especially if it's the case that they shrugged their other responsibilities too, such as Gas Safety Certs, or failed to carry out required repairs. CAB/Shelter may be able to advise on this, tho' I suspect it needs more specialist advice. At the very least, let the LA know; give them a brief account of what went on, and all the personal details that you are aware of - the ID of the 'agent', the suspected location of the LL, etc. They should be able to look up the owner of this property, surely?

And, your friend could also pursue the non-secured deposit aspect themselves; I understand that in normal circumstances that this is not a difficult thing to do ('normal' being, for example, a LL with a known location in this country).

But, under these quite strange circumstances, I think the best advice for your friend is to simply ensure they are not out of pocket over this, so - at the very least - stop rent payments 2 weeks before eviction date to use up the deposit, and - if they feel like it - extend that period to take into account that the deposit was not secured.

In both scenarios, I'd inform the 'agent', should they enquire about the non-forthcoming rent; for the 2-week period, simply tell them to use the deposit. For the greater period, inform them you are 'seeking legal advice over the non-securing of the deposit, and other issues', and that you'll keep them updated.

Well done, your friend, for keeping all the receipts! How certain are they that the deposit has not been secured; have they checked the (2 or 3?) deposit-securing sites?

Realistically, keep things simple; Make sure they are not out of pocket. Report the LL and agent. Walk away.

_Penny_Dreadful

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

Back in the day my friend's property was one of last 2 that were still LL's property, not sold as he used to have 20. LL sold all of them beside this one and went AWOL stopping mortgage payments and letting it be repossessed.

The LL's agent was acting as an agent for other tenants at the time my friend moved in. When moving in it was: were paying rent to Mark, he collects for LL. So my friend did the same, he was happy to have roof over his head and his English is pretty much non existent so he didn't ask for paperwork or deposit protection. All was good, there was no repossession going on. Then LL went AWOL, they started getting a lot of mail to.LL, all other tenants got scared and moved out as they thought they'll be evicted soon.

Letters still keeps coming in, court case to defend his case for LL took place in February, someone keeps showing at the address looking to give LL some documents (county clerk or bank employee we guess) but as LL is AWOL they can't share any information with my friend. On both occasion they were told about an agent so I guess agent knows more than he says. Basically he says he knows nothing though on at least those two occasions someone trying to give LL these documents was sent to agents address twice

Basically agent when approached and being asked about anything is: I know nothing, ask the LL though I don't know his address, it's all between you and LL and not between you and me, I just collect rent for LL. When asked what happens to rent and whether it is sent to LL or kept by agent, no response, just contact the LL for your answers

Who is Mark? Was Mark someone who was living in the property and acting as a liaison between the other occupants and the landlord or is Mark someone who works at a letting agency? How does your friend pay money to Mark, bank transfer? If so what is the name of the account the money is transferred to? 

Bitsandbobs_2

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Who is Mark? Was Mark someone who was living in the property and acting as a liaison between the other occupants and the landlord or is Mark someone who works at a letting agency? How does your friend pay money to Mark, bank transfer? If so what is the name of the account the money is transferred to? 

Mark is LL's agent. He has his own business which involves letting services, pawn shop and loans.

My friends pay by cash every Saturday in advance for next week ahead, in person and receives paper receipt on every payment

_Penny_Dreadful

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Who is Mark? Was Mark someone who was living in the property and acting as a liaison between the other occupants and the landlord or is Mark someone who works at a letting agency? How does your friend pay money to Mark, bank transfer? If so what is the name of the account the money is transferred to? 

Mark is LL's agent. He has his own business which involves letting services, pawn shop and loans.

My friends pay by cash every Saturday in advance for next week ahead, in person and receives paper receipt on every payment

Does your friend have rent book? Where rent is payable weekly, and the payment does not include a substantial amount for meals, the landlord must provide a rent book or equivalent. Failure to comply with this is an offence under s.7 Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. 

As a letting agent in England (I’m assuming that’s where your friend lives) Mark must be registered with one of two property redress schemes: The Property Ombudsman or The Property Redress Scheme. The local authority can fine letting agents who are not registered with either up to £5000. 

It’s no use Mark saying he does not know the landlord’s whereabouts because he must supply his client’s details to the tenant if the tenant requests the landlord’s contact details under section 1(1) of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 within 21 days of the request. 

One last thing, does your friend have an address for the serving of notices that is in England or Wales? Usually it is supplied in the tenancy agreement. No address means no rent is due until the landlord supplies one. 

My advice to your friend would be to contact the local authority asap about his imminent homelessness. The local authority should be able to assist your friend with the points I raised above as well. I’d also suggest setting aside the rent and not giving Mark anymore money for the time being. Lastly, your friend and any other occupants should make the lender aware of their presence. 

Bitsandbobs_2

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Who is Mark? Was Mark someone who was living in the property and acting as a liaison between the other occupants and the landlord or is Mark someone who works at a letting agency? How does your friend pay money to Mark, bank transfer? If so what is the name of the account the money is transferred to? 

Mark is LL's agent. He has his own business which involves letting services, pawn shop and loans.

My friends pay by cash every Saturday in advance for next week ahead, in person and receives paper receipt on every payment

Does your friend have rent book? Where rent is payable weekly, and the payment does not include a substantial amount for meals, the landlord must provide a rent book or equivalent. Failure to comply with this is an offence under s.7 Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. 

As a letting agent in England (I’m assuming that’s where your friend lives) Mark must be registered with one of two property redress schemes: The Property Ombudsman or The Property Redress Scheme. The local authority can fine letting agents who are not registered with either up to £5000. 

It’s no use Mark saying he does know the landlord’s whereabouts because he must supply his client’s details to the tenant if the tenant requests the landlord’s contact details under section 1(1) of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 within 21 days of the request. 

One last thing, does your friend have an address for the serving of notices that is in England or Wales? Usually it is supplied in the tenancy agreement. No address means no rent is due until the landlord supplies one. 

My advice to your friend would be to contact the local authority asap about his imminent homelessness. The local authority should be able to assist your friend with the points I raised above as well. I’d also suggest setting aside the rent and not giving Mark anymore money for the time being. Lastly, your friend and any other occupants should make the lender aware of their presence. 

I used to pay a rent for my friend a few times when he was working overtime and couldn't do it in person. Agent had something that resembled rent book from which he was tearing apart a piece of paper that was signed and confirmed rent has been paid. Not sure if my friend has something similar at his address or the fact agent has something similar is enough.

As said many times before there was no paperwork exchanged when he moved in so I'll guess notice is supposed to be served to agents address and not LL's address as assuming agent is telling truth, neither him or my friend know it.

We will try to officially ask from LLs address under Tenant Act, providing that it is supplied, what else can we ask for? Can we ask what is going on with repossession proceedings? Or it may be really that agent is not being updated which personally I don't believe is true?

Schwarzwald

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

What can my friend do if it's really finally repossessed.
Can he stop paying the rent to agent if he can not produce authorisation to collect rent?
Can he sue the agent for unprotected deposit and all rent paid in those 2 years?

there is a lot of text but your actual question(s) remain rather unclear.

if the properyt is finally repossessed, v likely your friends needs to move out, at one point.
Open the letters to find out when the repossession date is so at least your friend isnt fully surprised by it one morning.
and so your friend can commence making arrangements for alternative accommodation.

if you know the repossession date, as other suggested, probably wise to stop rent payments 2 weeks before eviction date to use up the deposit so he's not losing out on the £240.

Suing for unprotected deposit and all rent paid in those 2 years ... assuming he stops paying 2 weeks before moving out. What has your friend lost by then in terms of money to trying to sue the LL or agent?

Assuming the max your friend could sue for is 6x depostig, that is £1,440. if the LL is in the Philippines as you say, how likely is your friend to get that money if the LL doesnt even care to pay the bank?

I think best advise is really:
1- get the date of the repossession
2- find alternative housing
3- stop paying rent ahead of moving out to make up for the deposit (or even earlier if you like to gamble a bit and fall into rent arrears)

Herzlos

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

So basically agent can do whatever they want and nothing can be done about it cause it's all about LL who want AWOL? Even if all money is going through his hands? My friend has all receipts for paid deposit and weekly rent, as he gets a signed receipt for every payment made.

He could try suing the agent for money back but I'm not sure there's any merit in that because if he'd been paying rent directly to the landlord then he'd be in the same position. Whether the agent is paying the landlord or not is largely irrelevant.

If you think some kind of fraud is happening - like the agent isn't actually acting on behalf of the landlord - then you could approach the police but that won't help your friend.

Same with the landlord. You could sue for the deposit back but since they aren't in the country and it's a small amount I don't think it's going to be worth the hassle. If the bank and council can't get money from him then your friend won't either.

I think your friends best course of action is to stop paying rent since the mortgage and bills aren't being paid, pack up/move/store whatever goods he can and then start looking for a new place to rent. Hopefully that'll give him some money towards a new deposit and he can find something before the bank evicts him. If he does get evicted, make sure he's got evidence of it to take to the council who should provide something.

Bookworm105

in this case I'd agree with the view that stop paying rent is actually the best way forward 

the LL owes you the penalty for failing to protect the deposit, but you will never see that as they reside overseas and will give 2 fingers to any UK court case, so stop paying rent now and thus "reclaim" it that way 

it would appear to be highly unlikely you will get any of the deposit back, so stop paying rent now and thus "reclaim" it that way 

it is probable the mortgage company will successfully repossess the property. The mortgage company will therefore become your legal LL but are very unlikely to want to keep it as a rental property so will almost certainly seek to evict you.  You should therefore physically pay any rent due to the mortgage company when, and only when, you are notified in writing that they have taken over as your LL. Clearly therefore until that happens you have a window of opportunity to not pay the rent and thus effectively reclaim your deposit and other monies due to you from the overseas LL 

Bitsandbobs_2

What if agent is not legally collecting rent and deposit? What does he really need to act as LL's agent? How does he legally prove without a doubt he's acting lawfully?

We are suspecting, again, suspecting as again there's no way to get any coherent info from agent, that he's milking the opportunity and collecting/keeping rent for himself

In that case, what would be my friends course of action?

pinkshoes

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

What if agent is not legally collecting rent and deposit? What does he really need to act as LL's agent? How does he legally prove without a doubt he's acting lawfully?

We are suspecting, again, suspecting as again there's no way to get any coherent info from agent, that he's milking the opportunity and collecting/keeping rent for himself

In that case, what would be my friends course of action?

What does it matter? The agreement has been to pay £XXX on a weekly basis to the agent and that is what your friend has done. If the agent is cheating the LL then that's his business. Nothing to do with your friend. 

You are over-complicating this. 

Stop thinking about suing the LL about the deposit. Yes, he is entitled to, you don't often get awarded 6x, but it will cost a court fee, he will win, and then I suppose he can get it registered against the house (that is about to be repossessed) in hope that there will be enough left over in equity to get his share. Sounds like a lot of hassle...

He just needs to find somewhere else, stop paying rent for the last two weeks in lieu of deposit return, and move out, and MOVE ON. Life is too short!