Home being repossessed - complicated issue

Bitsandbobs_2

My friend pays 120/week and all bills included. All bills, council tax are in LL's name.

Council tax debt has been referred to debt collectors and was over 5K as of February, no idea how it works here as I remember when I was late with one of my own payments by a few days they threatened me with withdrawing 10 monthly payments option and having to pay whole outstanding balance within 14 days and in this situation CT hasn't been paid for years

Same for electricity and gas, both with EDF, I've checked and I made a mistake, it's over 13K in arrears but they just sent reminders about meter readings and estimated bills but not referred to debt collectors (where usually they would put him on prepayment meter ages ago), same for water.

FreeBear

RAS said: In the absence of a contractual amendment they probably need to give a month's notice if they want to move out. But the precise date when the notice is due depends on those dates. 

If he moved out without giving any notice, what could the LL do - Being overseas, he'd be hard pushed to sue. The "agent" is unlikely to have the authority to take court action.

Bitsandbobs_2

RAS said:

Your friend may want to to contact the mortgage provider to let them know that there is a tenant.

The Council Tax situation is scary, as that is supposed to be paid by the occupier unless the property is an HMO. I'm guessing your friend only rents a room?

Yes he only rents one of the rooms, the rest are not rented for over a year now.

I think bank already knows about him being a tenant as they had same guy trying to give LL some documents but as landlord is not at the address, they were referred to agent.

Not sure if it was court clerk or bank employee as he didn't want to provide any details to him, only wanted to speak to LL ( eventually agent)

And no he doesn't want to move out but would have to once repossession is complete whenever it happens (been over 6 months since court hearing)

We will be trying to get in touch with local.CAB and see what they say about whole situation

Bitsandbobs_2

FreeBear said:

RAS said: In the absence of a contractual amendment they probably need to give a month's notice if they want to move out. But the precise date when the notice is due depends on those dates. 

If he moved out without giving any notice, what could the LL do - Being overseas, he'd be hard pushed to sue. The "agent" is unlikely to have the authority to take court action.

My friend is not thinking of moving out yet, not unless repossessing completes

He would like to get his deposit times whatever is possible when not protected when moving in (I've heard it can be up to 6x initial deposit) and see where he stands against agent if they don't have a proper authorisation to collect the rent

FreeBear

Bitsandbobs_2 said: My friend is not thinking of moving out yet, not unless repossessing completes

It will be a case of when repossession completes, not if. He really needs to be actively searching for alternative accommodation now rather than leaving to the last minute.

RAS

It's somewhat irrelevant what your friend wants to do. The law dictates what happens.

If the LL hasn't got consent to let, then I think your friend gets 14 days notice to leave, probably addressed to "the occupier". I'd suggest your friend phones or messages Shelter as they are the housing specialists. 

By law the LL is responsible for registering the deposit regardless of who your friend gave it to. Since the LL is in the Philippines, the chance of suing him successfully for non-registration borders on nil. Even if your friend served notice at the address so there was a UK address for legal purposes, the court costs money and there's no way to enforce any judgement on residents living overseas.

It's one of the few occasions I'd suggest your friend might just fail to pay the last two weeks rent.

When they speak to Shelter they need to discuss with them the date when they need to give notice to avoid liability for the tenancy after they leave.

And notice needs to be given in writing to the address for the serving of notices. Again, ask Shelter whether to address this to the agent or belt and braces by sending a letter to the LL at the house. I know that appears silly, but free certificates of posting could prove your friend tried to meet their legal obligations, preventing the LL suing them.

And don't go on to much about the agent. Since the LL is overseas, they need an agreement with the HMRC about income tax. Otherwise, if the tenant pays money to an overseas LL, they are supposed to deduct the tax and pay that to the HMRC.  Unless the LL has an agent, in which case responsibility rests with the agent. So it's in your friend's interest to believe the agent is authorised to collect the rent.

ThisIsWeird

Curious - does a HMO remain a HMO if the number of Os falls below the required HMO number? Ie, would the remaining, sub-HMO, number of residents automatically become liable for CT and utilities in this case?
I would agree with RAS that, in the worst case scenario and eviction proceedings are brought, your friend should stop paying rent at least two weeks before eviction date, stating the deposit should be used for this.
Realistically, what are the chances of the LL taking action to claim this rent? 
In which case, would anyone suggest that the OP's friend should stop paying 6 weeks before eviction date, stating that it is the equivalent of an unsecured deposit claim? If Bs&Bs friend has next to zero chance of suing the LL for this unsecured deposit breach through the usual channels, then surely ditto in reverse; if the LL came out of the woodwork to attempt a claim for lost rent, then the fact of the unsecured deposit would also come out.
Does your friend have any evidence of the deposit paid, and to whom, Bs&Bs? Do they have any contact with the ex-occupants who could back this up?
If the mortgage co repossesses this property, would would happen to the occupants in a 'normal' situation - Ie with a proper LL? Would the tenants have any protection? Any security? Be able to stay on? If not, then there is surely way less chance of your friend being able to do so here, Bs&Bs, so as also suggested by others, they should be planning for the future.
I'm guessing - but I don't know where they live - that this rent is 'cheap', especially with no bills on top? In which case, with a new 'responsible' owner/LL down the line, your friend can expect the rent to jump to 'normal' levels in any case, so another reason to start planning a move. 
The above is a layman's views.  

Bitsandbobs_2

So basically agent can do whatever they want and nothing can be done about it cause it's all about LL who want AWOL? Even if all money is going through his hands? My friend has all receipts for paid deposit and weekly rent, as he gets a signed receipt for every payment made.

Also, don't know where it's coming from but my friend is not trying to run away from any of his responsibilities or anything, once eviction is served, he will move out on a day, it's just a shady agent that does how he please and seems to be untouchable

_Penny_Dreadful

Bitsandbobs_2 said:

Hello, my first post here, in name of a friend of mine, were both non-native speakers so forgive me if something is not clear

It's complicated, but I'll try to explain everything 

My friend moved into this property 2 years ago, as they had 1 room left unoccupied. Back in the day there were 4 guys renting but 3 of them moved out 61 months ago and it's only my friend in the property only.

He paid 2 weeks deposit (240 pounds) when moving in. Rent is being paid to LL's "agent"

Calling him an agent is overstatement. He never gave my friend a deposit scheme confirmation so his deposit is not secured.

Landlord had around 20 properties but sold all of them beside this one. Last mortgage paymrny was made in September 2022, since then Landlord is living in Philippines and there's no contact with him. His agent never really protected my friends deposit or even gave him any rent agreement yet keeps collecting 120 weekly. When asked for authorisation from LL for his rent to be paid to agent, the agent said he can't give it to him as LL Is not contactable.

According to agent, home is being repossessed and court case was held in February but he can't say anything else. My friend keeps getting letters from energy and water companies, some debt collectors and council addressed to LL. Never opened any of them but we guess the debts are going into thousands.

On 2 occasions he had a visit from someone either being court clerk or bank employee trying to deliver some more documents. Having informed them he's just a tenant without any agreement and pointing them to agent, this guy's left.

My understanding is: agent collecting rent, not sure if it's passed to.LL or not. My friend never had deposit secured or rent agreement in writing, were not even sure if the agent is legally collecting the rent.

Agent says they know nothing about repossession progress but that it took out place in February. 

What can my friend do if it's really finally repossessed. Can he stop paying the rent to agent if he can not produce authorisation to collect rent? Can he sue the agent for unprotected deposit and all rent paid in those 2 years?

It's really complicated and I probably missed some crucial information but any help is highly appreciated.

Why did your friend start paying rent to the letting agent in the first place? At some point in time he must have believed this person was acting as the landlord’s agent. Who is named as the landlord in the tenancy agreement and what address has been given for the serving of notices? 

Bitsandbobs_2

Back in the day my friend's property was one of last 2 that were still LL's property, not sold as he used to have 20. LL sold all of them beside this one and went AWOL stopping mortgage payments and letting it be repossessed.

The LL's agent was acting as an agent for other tenants at the time my friend moved in. When moving in it was: were paying rent to Mark, he collects for LL. So my friend did the same, he was happy to have roof over his head and his English is pretty much non existent so he didn't ask for paperwork or deposit protection. All was good, there was no repossession going on. Then LL went AWOL, they started getting a lot of mail to.LL, all other tenants got scared and moved out as they thought they'll be evicted soon.

Letters still keeps coming in, court case to defend his case for LL took place in February, someone keeps showing at the address looking to give LL some documents (county clerk or bank employee we guess) but as LL is AWOL they can't share any information with my friend. On both occasion they were told about an agent so I guess agent knows more than he says. Basically he says he knows nothing though on at least those two occasions someone trying to give LL these documents was sent to agents address twice

Basically agent when approached and being asked about anything is: I know nothing, ask the LL though I don't know his address, it's all between you and LL and not between you and me, I just collect rent for LL. When asked what happens to rent and whether it is sent to LL or kept by agent, no response, just contact the LL for your answers