SIP Parking Ltd PDT failure PCN

Not_A_Hope

Hi guys. I have successfully dealt with a number of PCNs for other people in recent years but these have mainly related to alleged overstays or VRN issues. This one is slightly different and I would welcome any support.

A close relative has been issued with a POFA compliant PCN by SIP Parking Limited alleging ‘Vehicle not permitted and consideration period exceeded’. The driver who is  a serving police officer uses this car park regularly when the nearby police station staff car is full. When using the car park PDT drivers have to enter their VRN, select payment amount and then pay using a card or cash. On the date in question they did this like many times previously and presented their card for payment. The display then reverted to ‘Enter your vehicle registration’. Believing that payment had been taken and the terminal was ready for the next user they left the car park to start work.

Terms and conditions signs indicate tickets or permits must be displayed but the PDT suggests it is ticketless or may not print a ticket. All part of the scam and therefore users have no evidence that they paid or as in this case no indication that the payment had not actually been taken. Checking their bank statement they can see no payment was taken that day. As an aside I understand a second PDT was previously been removed because it was not working properly and has not been replaced. Other police officers have had difficulties making payments and have resorted to using an app to pay. I have asked the driver to get any details.

As well as trying to find the land owner and complaining to their MP my initial thoughts are to name the keeper as driver, appeal the notice with the fact that the error was with their payment machine or system which has led to a frustration of contract that was not the drivers fault. I am not sure whether it is worth offering to pay £3.50 for parking retrospectively as a good will gesture which may seem reasonable to a judge in the future.

I do not expect them to accept any appeal and do not propose to waste any time lodging an appeal with the IAS, ignore debt collectors and wait for an inevitable County Court claim.

Is there any way of finding out where the payment request may have failed e.g. at the PDT, the payment process or at the bank?

Any useful pointers towards any Consumer Rights Act failures would be great.

I also note @PecanPies had a thread a couple of years ago where there is similar obfuscation by SIP whereby ‘Management of the car park is the responsibility of SIP Car Parks Ltd however enforcement actions are the responsibility of SIP Parking Ltd’.  Which company would any alleged contract actually be with and which company name should be on any future  claim. 

Thanks in anticipation

Not_A_Hope

I would welcome any feedback / comments on the thread for this PCN and plan of action

LDast

Are you sure the NtK is fully compliant with ALL the requirements of PoFA? For example, is Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) fully complied with?

Gr1pr

SIP Parking court claim form example in this thread from 6 months ago 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6512018/claim-form-from-sip-parking-ltd?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=SIP+Parking+court+claim+form+

Coupon mad posted a picture of a SIP parking POFA compliant NTK in the NTK thread link in the newbies sticky thread, first post, under dig deeper 

Personally I would NEVER enter or use a car park with SIP enforcement, or any IPC AOS member if I can possibly avoid it 

LDast

The signage at the location can invalidate an NtK from being PoFA compliant, especially if the charge for breaching the terms is not "adequately" Brough to the attention of the driver. as per Paragraph 2(2) of PoFA.

Not_A_Hope

Thanks @Gr1pr my search hadn’t discovered that SIP court claim thread. I will monitor it.

I compared the SIP PCN to that in @Couponmad POFA thread and found it to be an identical compliant notice.

I agree that private car parks are to be avoided wherever possible and particularly IPC ones and try to educate friends and family. Unfortunately like most of the public my relatives are unaware of the scam nature of the industry until they get stung. In this case this car park is used for safety reasons for police officers leaving work unaccompanied late at night.

Not_A_Hope

The signage at the location can invalidate an NtK from being PoFA compliant, especially if the charge for breaching the terms is not "adequately" Brough to the attention of the driver. as per Paragraph 2(2) of PoFA.

Mm. in that case pretty much all NtKs are not POFA compliant as few car parks highlight the charge for breaching T&Cs in the way ParkingEye did in the Beavis case. Should they raise a court claim we will be using inadequate and ambiguous signage as a defence point as per the template

LDast

Compare the SIP sign with the one from the Beavis case they like to harp on about so much.


          

Gr1pr

Not_A_Hope said:

Thanks @Gr1pr my search hadn’t discovered that SIP court claim thread. I will monitor it.

There are a few SIP Parking court claims on here, a new thread is this one from today 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6548161/received-a-letter-from-the-county-court-business-centre#latest