German Kitchen For A Small Space

travis-powers

FreeBear said:

travis-powers said:

MysteryMe said:

Be interesting to get the views of landlords as to what route they go down when it comes to kitchens that are likely to be "abused"  especially in short term let or student type accommodation.

Or possibly think about units that are less fitted so if one does get trashed you can easily take it out and replace. Instead of wall cupboards have open shelving, that kind of thing.  Maybe something like the IKEA Enhet range.  

Used to fit kitchens for housing associations was always good quality units, cheap doors and worktop with salmonella joints so could be changed cost effectively.

By salmonella joints, I take it you mean those nasty plastic or aluminium strips. With a decent router & jig, it takes very little time to do a proper mitred joint, and looks a world better. There really isn't an excuse nowadays except for a landlord trying to save a few pennies (and what else has he skimped on).

What it boils down to is unskilled maintenance men can quickly replace worktop if damaged, I totally get what you saying but social housing don’t work like that!

SisterMichael

Thanks for the replies.

Some further information:

FreeBear - If budget would stretch to stainless steel, I might actually consider that. Not keen on the look but the durability is the most important criteria for us so I would suck it up, I guess. I go back and forth on the handleless thing - it isn't something I'm actually keen on and if it wont make a difference, we may just actually go for handles. 

tacpot12 - You raise a good point, I did not actually understand it from looking at one source but had to look at several websites before I got a true sense of it. I suspect forum rules means I am not allowed to post links to those websites (they are commercial and it might be classed as advertising). It seems that it is cultural for the Germans to take their kitchens with them when they move house so the kitchens are made of more hardwearing, more durable materials, that there is a more customisable element to their kitchens and there is a sense that the Germans are less tolerant of substandard engineering/materials which, again, seems cultural.

I take your point on the handleless thing though and I think we are pretty much back to looking for something with handles. I can actually see myself having to continuously wipe food marks away from the handleless grooves which would irritate me more than having to wipe it off the handles which I used to have to do. We are more looking for clever storage solutions that would suit us as opposed to having them for the sake of having them - not a fan of paying expensively for things that you then don't use!

BarelySentientAI - It is actually worth it to us to pay more for a higher quality build (although not double the price) as, when I go back to work, I will have to manage the carers and whilst they (on the whole) seem to see no point in respecting the space and making an effort to not break things, many of them also seem to get a little tetchy when something they have broken is now out of action for any period of time while we scurry to get it fixed or buy a new one. This has proved unbelievably time-consuming in the past and at times has almost jeopardised my job hence I am trying to reduce the risk of things breaking in clumsy hands in the first place!

MysteryMe - I think the IKEA Enhet range gets good reviews on Which? and I like the fact that we would easily be able to replace broken things but I would rather something that I could be confident would not easily break at all...

FreeBear - Howden's quite opaque pricing structure has put me off..... 

Eldi_Dos - It's a lovely idea but we unfortunately can't prioritise the aesthetic over the durability, storage and functionality because of the carers. What you describe sounds like some of the photos I've seen online which give me kitchen envy but I imagine those shelves would get grime or dirt on them in a space as small as ours and we sadly cannot afford to sacrifice that storage space in that way either....

Ka7e - Some good points, thank you. We are already sold on the idea of deep drawers if we can get them in. DIYK was actually our first choice until the German kitchens thing popped up as an option - I am particularly reassured by the fact that people say their fitters are converted when they put one in and rave about them because we're looking for affordable bomb-proof quality! We may end up going DIYK as a few people have now suggested that we would not get the benefit of a German kitchen in our very tiny space....

travis-powers - Helpful to know, thank you. Do you know which brand/supplier those housing associations used for the carcasses? We are interested in getting the kitchen from somewhere that uses Blum/Hettich hinges, very sturdy carcasses in terms of quality and thickness of material and someone who knows more about it than me has suggested that we ensure we get thick PVC or ABS edge banding...

bex2012

Ive been involved with public sector housing contracts… kitchen refurbs in social housing will usually be done from a framework agreement. Ones Im familiar with from different frameworks are Benchmarx Kitchens, Magnet, Symphony, and Paula Rosa Manhattan.

travis-powers

We was fitting premier and symphony, symphony do kitchens from budget to really nice on par and I would personally say better than Wren, all the shelves are lipped all round use the German style wall brackets, where Wren falls short is there long term customer care, well worth looking into to, Jewson, MKM and Hews Grey stock it.

SisterMichael

Thanks travis-powers and bex2012 - gives me somewhere else to look as well, much appreciated.


Does anybody have any experience with something like this from Howdens (although we would be seeking to buy it from elsewhere if possible) in terms of durability/being relatively bomb-proof?:

https://www.howdens.com/kitchens/fitted-kitchens/hockley-mirror-gloss/hockley-mirror-gloss-sandstone     

SisterMichael

Also, what is MKM?

FreeBear

SisterMichael said:

Also, what is MKM?

https://mkm.com/ - Another builders merchant. Jewsons also do kitchens, so might be worth giving them a look.

Benchmarx is part of Travis Perkins, as is Wickes - You can guess where Wickes kitchens come from..

Chickereeeee

I seem to remember reading that German kitchen cabinets use stronger cross beams for structural rigidity, and a thin bavk panels (which can be removed if wanted) while British cabinets used thick, 18mm back panels to provide rigidity. 

I don't know if this was, or still is, true,  but I do know that, in Germany, when you move into a rented place, the kitchen room is likely to be stripped completely bare. You are expected to buy and install your own kitchen each time you move. So I imagine there is quite a bit of business in kitchens there.

DullGreyGuy

tacpot12 said:

I'm not even sure what a German Kitchen is. I've googled it, and it doesn't look like anything other than regular kitchen units. Can you point me to a website that explains the "German Kitchen" concept?

It's not a concept it's simply kitchen units made by a German company in a similar way people say German cars (ie Audi, VW, Mercedes etc) have a better build quality than other countries whereas say Italian brands (eg Fiat, Ferrari) are more stylish but less reliable. Broad generalisations in other words 

If you have a reasonable budgets then there are certainly a number of design studios pushing the likes of Eggersmann, Häckner and Schüller as unbeatable quality.

SisterMichael

Thanks for the replies.

FreeBear - Will check out Jewsons (already looking at Benchmarx). Staying away from Wickes based on passed threads on here and elsewhere!  

Chickereeeee - I have come across the same information about thin back panels with the German suppliers but apparently this is mitigated by having a more robust surrounding structure which fixes the back panel in place sturdily? I also like the rubber seals on the base of the plinths with some of the German suppliers and wondered if anyone knows if this is possible with any of the British suppliers? The expectation to take your kitchen with you in Germany immediately suggests to me that those kitchens will be therefore sturdy and durable in order to withstand all that moving - a large part of what grabbed my interest in the first place. I am trying to find out whether the same can be replicated with a British kitchen without having to sell an organ for the likes of Smallbone and co? Also, whether spending the extra on a German kitchen in a very small space is a false economy? 

DullGreyGuy - Interestingly, Hacker and Schuller are 2 of the German brands we are looking at (also Leicht or Pronorm if we could make a solid case for an advantage of either of these in our tiny space and providing we could secure the finance needed to do it; Bulthaup for us is the stuff of fairy tales - it is clear that the Bulthaup quality beats everyone else I have mentioned so far). Do you have a Hacker, Schuller or Eggersmann kitchen?

Frustrating that, despite a few weeks of research, I am still near the start as I still can't answer the very basic question of whether or not a German kitchen in a very small kitchen space is worthwhile....