Mis-Sold Car Finance Agreement - NOT JUST DCA

barryt01

Hi all. 
I'm looking for some thoughts or advice on what was, in my opinion, clearly a mis-sold car finance agreement.
In 2012 my wife was diagnosed with PTSD following the extremely traumatic birth of our son. Her mental health was dire.
The timing coincided with her father deciding to 'purchase' a new car. His own credit rating meant he was unable to obtain a finance agreement, so he asked my wife if she would enter into the agreement with Black Horse Finance on his behalf. When I found out about it I made it crystal clear that she shouldn't do it, as I had zero faith that he would honour the repayments and she would be left financially liable. I also phoned and said the same to him. Despite this, he invited my wife (his daughter) to the BMW dealership and between him and the BMW sales woman literally bullied and coerced her into signing the agreement. It was openly discussed that she was signing the agreement due to her fathers ineligability, and that he would be the sole user and keeper of the car, not her.
On the day in question our new-born son was extremely restless and was screaming at the dealership, adding to the stress of the situation. It later transpired that he was seriously ill, and was rushed to hospital for a life-saving surgery.
At this time my wife wasn't working; she was a new stay-at-home Mum with no income of her own. No affordability checks were carried out.
Needless to say, her father soon stopped transferring us the money to cover the repayments. We tried to keep them up, but after a few months we fell into arrears. She received countless threatening letters from Black Horse. She did write back to them, explaining the situation, but it made no difference. She was ultimately issued a court summons and threatened with a CCJ. Thankfully her father attended the court on her behlaf, and literally did a deal on the steps of the court, moments before the hearing.
The car was returned, the outstanding finance amount remained showing on her credit file but Black Horse accepted no further payments would be made. After 7 years (I think) the loan was wiped from her credit file. This did affect her credit rating however, and made it very difficult for us to get a mortgage during the 7 year period.
We have lodged a DCA complaint using the MSE tool, and Black Horse have advised the agreemet did include Discressionary Commission.
However I still think there is a bigger question for them to answer, over the mis-selling of the agreement in the first place, especially as we are still dealing with the consequences of it.
Thoughts or advise welcomed, and gratefully received. Thank you.

Hoenir

barryt01 said:

Despite this, he invited my wife (his daughter) to the BMW dealership and between him and the BMW sales woman literally bullied and coerced her into signing the agreement.

What evidence do you have to support this assertion?  

barryt01

Thanks for replying @Hoenir

Only my wife's testimony. It was a verbal interaction.

Nasqueron

barryt01 said:

Thanks for replying @Hoenir

Only my wife's testimony. It was a verbal interaction.

You won't be able to prove this 

Regardless, your complaint will be time barred - 6 years from when it was taken out (2018) and 3 years from when you knew, or could reasonably have known, you had cause for complaint (arguably on the same day but certainly within the years after including when you got the CCJ). 

The DCA complaint is separate

barryt01

Thanks @Nasqueron.

I know we can't prove the 'bullying and coersion'. I included that for context.
The complete lack of affordability checks, and the knowledge that my wife was entering into the agreement on behalf of her father are the issues. Lack of affordability checks are listed as legitimate grounds for complaint according to this MSE page: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/mis-sold-car-finance/
As for the time barring, I should have mentioned that my wife did first complain directly to Black Horse in October 2016, including a letter from her doctor confirming her PTSD diagnosis.

DullGreyGuy

barryt01 said:

As for the time barring, I should have mentioned that my wife did first complain directly to Black Horse in October 2016, including a letter from her doctor confirming her PTSD diagnosis.

Which would give further grounds for it to be time barred given that was almost 8 years ago, the complaint then will be taken as proof that the "date of knowing" was no later than Oct 2016 and you have a maximum of 3 years from the date of knowing to litigate. It could be argued the date of knowing was earlier but there wouldn't be a need to. 

Ultimately nothing stops someone from repeating a complaint but the FoS will almost certainly state its time barred for them and it would be a statutory defence for the counter party were you to litigate. 

This feels much more like a father/daughter thing than anything else. 

Nasqueron

barryt01 said:

Thanks @Nasqueron.

I know we can't prove the 'bullying and coersion'. I included that for context.
The complete lack of affordability checks, and the knowledge that my wife was entering into the agreement on behalf of her father are the issues. Lack of affordability checks are listed as legitimate grounds for complaint according to this MSE page: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/mis-sold-car-finance/
As for the time barring, I should have mentioned that my wife did first complain directly to Black Horse in October 2016, including a letter from her doctor confirming her PTSD diagnosis.

Your complaint is still out of time, as you complained in 2016 that would trigger the 3 year rule as well. I assume the firm responded and you either didn't take it to the ombudsman or did and the complaint was resolved? Either way it will be time barred

It doesn't matter what you link to. the 3 and 6 year rules are legally binding, your complaint can (and most likely will be) time barred by the firm and that will end it as the FOS cannot overturn correctly applied time bars. 

Hoenir

barryt01 said:

Thanks for replying @Hoenir

Only my wife's testimony. It was a verbal interaction.

You need to park this and move on. At least you'll receive the compensation, rather than the FIL,  if any is due. Having the satisfacton of knowing that you can tell him. that you'll keep the money for the angst he's caused your family over the past 12 years , more by the time any monies are actually paid out. 

dunstonh

 between him and the BMW sales woman literally bullied and coerced her into signing the agreement.

That is a very serious allegation but it is one that is going to be virtually impossible to get anywhere with
a) your wife was with her father, who would be considered a responsible adult.
b) it was 12 years ago.    The speed you complain about something is important with complaints where there is no evidence to back up the allegation.
c) there won't be any evidence to support the allegation.
d) the 3 and 6 year rule could be applied i.e. timebarred

We have lodged a DCA complaint using the MSE tool, and Black Horse have advised the agreemet did include Discressionary Commission.

DCA could  be positive, neutral or negative.  So, being told there DCA existed doesn't mean it was a wrongdoing.    

But more importantly, if the debt involved a write off as part of the settlement, then they are allowed to offset redress against the amount written off.

The complete lack of affordability checks, and the knowledge that my wife was entering into the agreement on behalf of her father are the issues. Lack of affordability checks are listed as legitimate grounds for complaint according to this MSE page: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/mis-sold-car-finance/

Affordability checks are not required with car finance at the same level as they are with home finance.  They credit score them and rely on data on file to make the decision.  They do not need to complete a budget analysis.

As for the time barring, I should have mentioned that my wife did first complain directly to Black Horse in October 2016, including a letter from her doctor confirming her PTSD diagnosis.

That absolutely timebars it then with a different timebar.   If you do not refer your case to the FOS within 6 months of their final response, then its game over.

The problem is that the lender doesn't appear to have done anything wrong. You may feel aggrieved with the dealer, but after 12 years, you acknowledge that it is a dead end.     This appears to be a "family" issue and family issues can be very difficult but that doesn't make the lender at fault.

barryt01

Ok, understood. Thanks everyone for your input. I do appreciate it.

MattMattMattUK

barryt01 said:

Hi all. 
I'm looking for some thoughts or advice on what was, in my opinion, clearly a mis-sold car finance agreement.
In 2012 my wife was diagnosed with PTSD following the extremely traumatic birth of our son. Her mental health was dire.
The timing coincided with her father deciding to 'purchase' a new car. His own credit rating meant he was unable to obtain a finance agreement, so he asked my wife if she would enter into the agreement with Black Horse Finance on his behalf. When I found out about it I made it crystal clear that she shouldn't do it, as I had zero faith that he would honour the repayments and she would be left financially liable. I also phoned and said the same to him. Despite this, he invited my wife (his daughter) to the BMW dealership and between him and the BMW sales woman literally bullied and coerced her into signing the agreement. It was openly discussed that she was signing the agreement due to her fathers ineligability, and that he would be the sole user and keeper of the car, not her.
On the day in question our new-born son was extremely restless and was screaming at the dealership, adding to the stress of the situation. It later transpired that he was seriously ill, and was rushed to hospital for a life-saving surgery.
At this time my wife wasn't working; she was a new stay-at-home Mum with no income of her own. No affordability checks were carried out.
Needless to say, her father soon stopped transferring us the money to cover the repayments. We tried to keep them up, but after a few months we fell into arrears. She received countless threatening letters from Black Horse. She did write back to them, explaining the situation, but it made no difference. She was ultimately issued a court summons and threatened with a CCJ. Thankfully her father attended the court on her behlaf, and literally did a deal on the steps of the court, moments before the hearing.
The car was returned, the outstanding finance amount remained showing on her credit file but Black Horse accepted no further payments would be made. After 7 years (I think) the loan was wiped from her credit file. This did affect her credit rating however, and made it very difficult for us to get a mortgage during the 7 year period.
We have lodged a DCA complaint using the MSE tool, and Black Horse have advised the agreemet did include Discressionary Commission.
However I still think there is a bigger question for them to answer, over the mis-selling of the agreement in the first place, especially as we are still dealing with the consequences of it.
Thoughts or advise welcomed, and gratefully received. Thank you.

You need to go no contact with your wife's father, he is an abusive bully.