Unjustly Stopped: Understanding My Rights as a Tesco Shopper if this happens again

Pollycat

user1977 said:

Emmia said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ergates said:

Yes, but whilst it's *unlikely* anything would come of it (especially if you're polite) it's still something to consider when deciding whether or not to cooperate with a request for a random check.  The minor inconvenience of going along with the check vs the risk of what could be a greater and longer term inconvenience of having to change where you shop.

I guess it depends on what is minor to you, someone might be running late, might have social anxiety, perhaps they are vulnerable leading towards the issue of abuse.

If the police could randomly stop and search you don't think there wouldn't be questions raised as to how they randomly pick people and whether prejudice affects their choices? Same could be said of security.

If both parties are decent nothing more comes of it, this inconvenience you talk of only arises if the member of staff escalates the situation either through ignorance of being entitled to (randomly) detain and search or because they just don't like being defied, for the customer to then end up banned because of the poor behaviour of the staff is very unlikely.  

The random stopping of people for them to account for their activities is something millions fought and died to protect, watering down the concept of innocent until proven guilty because of a rogue element isn't the answer to deter shoplifting but rather for people to stand up and demand less money for billionaires and instead more money for public services, not only law enforcement but arts, culture, youth centres, parks, sports and leisure centres, community projects, things that would improve the general standard of living, providing a sense of purpose and identity whilst installing greater ideals of community but sadly people are too busy engaging in divide and conquer with their fellow man and gorging on self indulgence. 

People seem to have a skewed sense of morality by perceiving they are being helpful by complying with something they aren't obligated to do for the "greater good" when in reality they are simply allowing a broken system to continue to be broken whilst giving anyway their freedoms. 

I may be wrong but ultimately I think it's all moot anyway as I doubt supermarkets employ tactics of randomly asking to check people in the UK, partly as it would be a negative experience for customers and they have no basis in law do so, but mainly because they would be opening themselves up to claims of discrimination. 

I think you might be reading a *little* bit too much in this.

We're not talking about gestapo officers roaming the streets shouting "Vere are your papers?" at people.  We're talking supermarkets who operate self-service tills saying they may ask to check customer's receipts before leaving the store.   I'm fairly certain nobody ever fought and died to avoid that.

In some supermarkets in Europe you have to scan a barcode on the receipt to leave the shop, as a means of deterring shoplifting...

In the UK parts of Europe, this is (recent) common practice at Sainsbury's, in order to leave the self-scan corral.

We used to frequent a restaurant in Nottingham called Cosmo.
When leaving, they had bouncers at the door to check you'd paid. 
I didn't find it annoying, embarrassing or humiliating.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Ergates said:

I think you might be reading a *little* bit too much in this.

We're not talking about gestapo officers roaming the streets shouting "Vere are your papers?" at people.  We're talking supermarkets who operate self-service tills saying they may ask to check customer's receipts before leaving the store.   I'm fairly certain nobody ever fought and died to avoid that.

Possibly but it's still the underlying issue of installing the idea that every day people should have no qualms to account for their normal actions eroding the principle of innocent until proven guilty, slippery slope and all that. 

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ergates said:

I think you might be reading a *little* bit too much in this.

We're not talking about gestapo officers roaming the streets shouting "Vere are your papers?" at people.  We're talking supermarkets who operate self-service tills saying they may ask to check customer's receipts before leaving the store.   I'm fairly certain nobody ever fought and died to avoid that.

Possibly but it's still the underlying issue of installing the idea that every day people should have no qualms to account for their normal actions eroding the principle of innocent until proven guilty, slippery slope and all that. 

Personally wouldn't bother me. I don't steal and loathe those that do. All it does is increase prices for everyone else. If security want to look in my bag and check my receipt, they are more than welcome.

I see it as no different to the random checks on the 'scan as you shop'.

Mr.Generous

I'm late to this one but a couple of points:

Shop staff have no right to search your bag, they can ask, you can agree or decline. So if you accept this then surely you see that by putting shop stock into your bag before making payment you are taking it. You can pay when you reach the till, but you really are doing wrong.

People are stopped and detained in store for theft before they leave the store, they do get convicted in court. There has to be good evidence they intended to permanently deprive the store of the goods. That was likely to be removal and disposal of security tags and/or packaging, and secreting the goods on their person/in bag/in pram etc. When I worked retail and was sure an offence was being committed I'd rather stop 'em inside where its easier to detain and control than risk a runner outside.

An obvious example would be the guy who brought wire cutters in to store and cut away hard tag security, removed and hid the packaging and stuffed the items up his shirt. If you honestly think a judge or magistrate was going to believe he was going to pay you're wrong. No defense solicitor ever tried to claim that in the cases I dealt with. The theft act makes no stipulation that a person has to leave the premesis - it's an act aimed at all thefts, not just from shops.

I worked in some rough towns, in Speke for example we made about 200 arrests a year for theft/fraud/card fraud and refund fraud. We did stop in store and although many tried to claim they hadn't left the store or passed the point of sale (till) the police, and later the courts didn't accept this as a reason or excuse and they were prosecuted and convicted.

Hoenir

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ergates said:

I think you might be reading a *little* bit too much in this.

We're not talking about gestapo officers roaming the streets shouting "Vere are your papers?" at people.  We're talking supermarkets who operate self-service tills saying they may ask to check customer's receipts before leaving the store.   I'm fairly certain nobody ever fought and died to avoid that.

Possibly but it's still the underlying issue of installing the idea that every day people should have no qualms to account for their normal actions eroding the principle of innocent until proven guilty, slippery slope and all that. 

Personally wouldn't bother me. I don't steal and loathe those that do. All it does is increase prices for everyone else. If security want to look in my bag and check my receipt, they are more than welcome.

I see it as no different to the random checks on the 'scan as you shop'.

My partner this year did a hand held scanner shop at Tesco's. Trouble was she forgot to scan the ironing board and was stopped exiting the store. Needless to say the episode was treated in good humour by all concerned. 

born_again

jackrussell7 said:

Hi Members,

I have been stopped by Tesco security at the exit on suspicion of theft twice in the last two years.

The first incident happened last year. I had checked out and paid at the self-service kiosk, collected my receipt, and then thrown it in the dustbin. My purchase was simple groceries like vegetables, costing less than £20. The security guard stopped me and asked for my receipt. I explained that I had discarded it. He insisted that I search the bin to retrieve it. It was extremely embarrassing.

I later complained to Tesco's head office. It took several reminders before they responded, stating that it was a branch issue and that the branch manager would call me. However, that never happened. After another two months and many reminders, they finally replied that the security guard involved no longer worked for Tesco and there was nothing more they could do.

The second incident happened just now. I intended to grab a few items like tomatoes and fruits, so I didn’t take a trolley. Instead, I put them in my Tesco shopping bag. A security guard approached me, stating that I couldn’t use my own bag and should use their basket. I smiled and assured him I would use the basket next time. After checking out and paying about £10, the security guard waited for me at the exit and searched me as if I were a thief. I asked to speak with the manager. The security guard accused me of being aggressive and threatened to ban me from all Tesco stores.

I was unhappy and took a photo of his name tag. He told me I wasn't allowed to do that, yet he filmed me with his chest cam. The manager arrived, and the guard threatened to call the police. The manager asked him to stand down and confirmed that there was nothing wrong with using my own bag instead of a basket. He said he would speak to the guard but implied that nothing more could be done for me.

From my last experience, I am tired of complaining because they will most likely ignore me. This incident can easily happen again, so I hope to know what my consumer rights are in this case, please.

--------------------------------------------

After reading through the posts and comments, I have a better understanding of the situation and realise I may have missed the main point: how the checks were carried out.

The first incident involved the security guard asking me to search through a bin to find my receipt, which I found excessive and intended to embarrass me.

As for yesterday's incident, if the guard believed I should have used a basket, a more constructive approach would have been to simply offer me one. When he checked my items, I only had six small items in my bag, which could have been easily reviewed with a quick glance. Instead, the guard insisted on checking the barcode of every single item against the receipt, which seemed excessive.

When the store manager arrived, he immediately noticed that my receipt was a reprint, which I explained that I hadn’t requested at the self-checkout. The manager also mentioned not finding "Spontex" on the receipt, and I promptly showed him the item. I found this interaction reasonable and was perfectly happy with how he handled it.

I prefer using self-checkout. As Bro Grumpy_chap, pointed out, the self-checkout sometimes requires a store assistant to check five items, which has happened a few times to me before. In those cases, the staff quickly scanned the items, even those deep inside my bag, and the whole process was completed in half a minute, which I found perfectly acceptable.

To draw an analogy, if I were purchasing alcohol, I’d fully understand being asked for ID. However, if I had to wait minutes because the staff wanted to call the DVLA to confirm my ID's validity and information, that would feel excessive and like an attempt to embarrass me.

Please note OP has edited 1st post rather than replying. 

End of the day no one is stood there watching you. So just look at it as one of the things that happen & get on with you day.👍

eskbanker

born_again said:

Please note OP has edited 1st post rather than replying. 

To be fair, OP edited the first post as well as replying with the same text in a separate post yesterday morning:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80912765/#Comment_80912765

prowla

Mr.Generous said:

Shop staff have no right to search your bag, they can ask, you can agree or decline. So if you accept this then surely you see that by putting shop stock into your bag before making payment you are taking it. You can pay when you reach the till, but you really are doing wrong.

I absolutely disagree.

The law (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60 ) states:

1 Basic definition of theft.

(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.

Putting something in your bag pending paying for it at the checkout is not theft.

However, you can see why it might pique security's attention.

RefluentBeans

prowla said:

Mr.Generous said:

Shop staff have no right to search your bag, they can ask, you can agree or decline. So if you accept this then surely you see that by putting shop stock into your bag before making payment you are taking it. You can pay when you reach the till, but you really are doing wrong.

I absolutely disagree.

The law (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60 ) states:

1 Basic definition of theft.

(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.

Putting something in your bag pending paying for it at the checkout is not theft.

However, you can see why it might pique security's attention.

Eh I agree - I think simply placing something into a normal bag wouldn’t be considered grounds for theft. But I think there’s a lot of caveats to that - foil lined bags can prevent tags from beeping as people leave and are commonly used by shoplifters. There’s a fair argument to be had that placing a product in that bag would be enough to show the intent.

But I also think it’s important too remember / the police don’t care. Prolific shoplifters may get prosecuted but it’s rare. 

OP had the right to decline a bag search. Or ask for the search to be done in the presence of a police officer. But, equally, the store has the right to decline to do business with her. And as others have said, acting suspiciously makes you more likely to be flagged to check to make sure you have your products, and nothing more from the store.

peter_the_piper

Its quite simple, keep your till receipt until you get home and don't use your own bag until after you've gone through the checkout or have scanned it as you shop.