Unjustly Stopped: Understanding My Rights as a Tesco Shopper if this happens again

Alderbank

HillStreetBlues said:

Undervalued said:

user1977 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

Unless the "shoplifter" has eaten the food he hasn't actually stolen anything until he leaves the store!

Shoplifting is just a term to describe theft and the offence of theft occurs when someone dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, might be wrong of course but I'm not sure you can't be charged for committing the offence because you've yet to leave the store. 

You could be charged with attempt. Doubt the police would be interested though.

Exactly - so it would incredibly unusual.

There isn't a crime of attempt.

Er... yes, there is.

The clue is in the name, the Criminal Attempts Act 1981. The Act even says it applies to low-value shoplifting.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/47/section/1

HillStreetBlues

user1977 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Undervalued said:

user1977 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

Unless the "shoplifter" has eaten the food he hasn't actually stolen anything until he leaves the store!

Shoplifting is just a term to describe theft and the offence of theft occurs when someone dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, might be wrong of course but I'm not sure you can't be charged for committing the offence because you've yet to leave the store. 

You could be charged with attempt. Doubt the police would be interested though.

Exactly - so it would incredibly unusual.

There isn't a crime of attempt.

Yes there is: Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 (legislation.gov.uk)

Thanks for the correction.

HillStreetBlues

Alderbank said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Undervalued said:

user1977 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Undervalued said:

Unless the "shoplifter" has eaten the food he hasn't actually stolen anything until he leaves the store!

Shoplifting is just a term to describe theft and the offence of theft occurs when someone dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, might be wrong of course but I'm not sure you can't be charged for committing the offence because you've yet to leave the store. 

You could be charged with attempt. Doubt the police would be interested though.

Exactly - so it would incredibly unusual.

There isn't a crime of attempt.

Er... yes, there is.

The clue is in the name, the Criminal Attempts Act 1981. The Act even says it applies to low-value shoplifting.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/47/section/1

Yes, I've already been corrected, the clue was in the previous comment by user1977

Hoenir

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Whilst you are free to comply with a random check you would also be free to walk away, there would be no powers to detain as picking people at random lacks either an offence being committed or reasonable grounds to suspect one  

Bearing in mind that a shop is free to refuse entry to anyone who has refused to cooperate with a random check, if they so chose.

Indeed they can but they have to counter that with losing loyal customers,

Business of Tesco's size with the number of competitors it has. Isn't going to be bothered. The losses through crime far outweigh shoppers who may or might not shop regularly in store. 

Ergates

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Whilst you are free to comply with a random check you would also be free to walk away, there would be no powers to detain as picking people at random lacks either an offence being committed or reasonable grounds to suspect one  

Bearing in mind that a shop is free to refuse entry to anyone who has refused to cooperate with a random check, if they so chose.

Indeed they can but they have to counter that with losing loyal customers, I think it would be very petty and more so I don't think stores ban customers willy nilly as is often made out on here but rather do so if they steal stuff or are abusive to staff (and rightly so in such examples). 

Yes, but whilst it's *unlikely* anything would come of it (especially if you're polite) it's still something to consider when deciding whether or not to cooperate with a request for a random check.  The minor inconvenience of going along with the check vs the risk of what could be a greater and longer term inconvenience of having to change where you shop.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Ergates said:

Yes, but whilst it's *unlikely* anything would come of it (especially if you're polite) it's still something to consider when deciding whether or not to cooperate with a request for a random check.  The minor inconvenience of going along with the check vs the risk of what could be a greater and longer term inconvenience of having to change where you shop.

I guess it depends on what is minor to you, someone might be running late, might have social anxiety, perhaps they are vulnerable leading towards the issue of abuse.

If the police could randomly stop and search you don't think there wouldn't be questions raised as to how they randomly pick people and whether prejudice affects their choices? Same could be said of security.

If both parties are decent nothing more comes of it, this inconvenience you talk of only arises if the member of staff escalates the situation either through ignorance of being entitled to (randomly) detain and search or because they just don't like being defied, for the customer to then end up banned because of the poor behaviour of the staff is very unlikely.  

The random stopping of people for them to account for their activities is something millions fought and died to protect, watering down the concept of innocent until proven guilty because of a rogue element isn't the answer to deter shoplifting but rather for people to stand up and demand less money for billionaires and instead more money for public services, not only law enforcement but arts, culture, youth centres, parks, sports and leisure centres, community projects, things that would improve the general standard of living, providing a sense of purpose and identity whilst installing greater ideals of community but sadly people are too busy engaging in divide and conquer with their fellow man and gorging on self indulgence. 

People seem to have a skewed sense of morality by perceiving they are being helpful by complying with something they aren't obligated to do for the "greater good" when in reality they are simply allowing a broken system to continue to be broken whilst giving anyway their freedoms. 

I may be wrong but ultimately I think it's all moot anyway as I doubt supermarkets employ tactics of randomly asking to check people in the UK, partly as it would be a negative experience for customers and they have no basis in law do so, but mainly because they would be opening themselves up to claims of discrimination. 

Jumblebumble

LinLui said:

Neither situation that you describe seems out of order. Putting items directly into your own shopping bag would make me look at you twice, so I can see why a security guard might find that suspicious. Equally, I am sure "I threw away my receipt / wasn't given one..." would quite possibly be a regular from those who do shoplift. I am sure there are two versions of this - one in which you were very calm and the guard was totally unreasonable, and one in which you were getting annoyed and being angry and the guard was just doing his job. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. 

If it were me I would inform the guard that I would have no objection to them getting a copy from the till
I certainly would not be rummaging in a bin like a vagrant

sheramber

I put items in my carrier bag in oine shop because one of the items is heavy  for me to manage in a wire basket and they only have deep trolleys which I cannot manage.

So my items go straight n my carrier bag.

BUT, I hand the carrier bag to the check out assistant .

She  zaps my purchases  in the bag and then gives me the bag back.

HillStreetBlues

sheramber said:

I put items in my carrier bag in oine shop because one of the items is heavy  for me to manage in a wire basket and they only have deep trolleys which I cannot manage.

So my items go straight n my carrier bag.

BUT, I hand the carrier bag to the check out assistant .

She  zaps my purchases  in the bag and then gives me the bag back.

There should be no issue using your own bag, but if you do then I don't see a problem if they want to look inside to check if you haven't "forgotten" something. your one is a good example.
I wonder what they look for when random checking?
Might be wise to avoid using this bag
 

eskbanker

HillStreetBlues said:

I wonder what they look for when random checking?
Might be wise to avoid using this bag
 

....especially when dressed like this for the trip to Tesco!