DWP and HMRC - how long to wait?

CalicoB

I was reading a post on another forum this week where an estate executor is in real trouble because the DWP only informed them there was money owed from the estate 15 months after probate, and just after the estate had been distributed. The executor had not known there was anything owed, and DWP hadn't written prior to this to say they were investigating anything. Nevertheless, they are now personally liable for a debt they can't afford to pay.

I'm in the process of administering my late aunt's estate, and DWP have asked for a repayment of state pension, which I have sent. However I'm now nervous that there may be other claims made much further down the line, and I would have no way of knowing this was coming.

Additionally, HMRC wrote to me over two months ago to say they would only write to let me know if any income tax was owed, but that it would take them up to 8 weeks to get in touch. That was 10 weeks ago. I can't get through to them on the phone, so have no idea whether I can assume this means there is nothing to pay.

It's still early days, but thinking down the line I know the beneficiaries should expect to receive their payments in a reasonable time frame; is taking 15 months to inform an estate that there is a claim 'reasonable'? If so, how long is an executor expected to wait to be safe? 

Hoenir

CalicoB said:

The executor had not known there was anything owed, 

Some context would help. Executorship is a legal responsibility that carries unlimited financial liability.  Needs to be performed with care and diligence. If at all uncertain then external advice sought be sought. 

p00hsticks

CalicoB said:

I'm in the process of administering my late aunt's estate, and DWP have asked for a repayment of state pension, which I have sent. However I'm now nervous that there may be other claims made much further down the line, and I would have no way of knowing this was coming.

What other benefits was your aunt claiming (if any) ? If DWP were informed in a timely manner of the death , then any further requests from them for repayments would almost certainly to relate to claims for means tested benefits (such as pension credit) where it only becomes apparent after the death that the claimant had not been entitled to them for at least some portion the time they were being claimed.

And it's been reported on these boards before that DWP will often get n touch to those handling the estates of those in receipt of pension credit and similar only after probate has been obtained, when the amount declared for probate is flagged as being  much larger than the savings limit for means tested benefits. This often turn out to be because the estate includes the value of the deceased's main residence, whereas their savings were indeed below the limit and they were fully entitled to the benefits they had been claiming.  

If your aunt wasn't receiving such benefits then it is unlikely that there would be any further claim on the estate - a check of bank statements should show what benefits she was in receipt of.  

CalicoB

p00hsticks said:

CalicoB said:

I'm in the process of administering my late aunt's estate, and DWP have asked for a repayment of state pension, which I have sent. However I'm now nervous that there may be other claims made much further down the line, and I would have no way of knowing this was coming.

What other benefits was your aunt claiming (if any) ? If DWP were informed in a timely manner of the death , then any further requests from them for repayments would almost certainly to relate to claims for means tested benefits (such as pension credit) where it only becomes apparent after the death that the claimant had not been entitled to them for at least some portion the time they were being claimed.

And it's been reported on these boards before that DWP will often get n touch to those handling the estates of those in receipt of pension credit and similar only after probate has been obtained, when the amount declared for probate is flagged as being  much larger than the savings limit for means tested benefits. This often turn out to be because the estate includes the value of the deceased's main residence, whereas their savings were indeed below the limit and they were fully entitled to the benefits they had been claiming.  

If your aunt wasn't receiving such benefits then it is unlikely that there would be any further claim on the estate - a check of bank statements should show what benefits she was in receipt of.  

This is really useful, thank you. The only things I can see from her statements (I've gone back 7 years) that she received from DWP was state pension and winter fuel payment. However her pension was a fair bit above the state pension standard. This may be because she got the additional level (born in 1936) but there's no break down so I can't see where the extra was coming from. It just came in one lump sum.

Keep_pedalling

CalicoB said:

p00hsticks said:

CalicoB said:

I'm in the process of administering my late aunt's estate, and DWP have asked for a repayment of state pension, which I have sent. However I'm now nervous that there may be other claims made much further down the line, and I would have no way of knowing this was coming.

What other benefits was your aunt claiming (if any) ? If DWP were informed in a timely manner of the death , then any further requests from them for repayments would almost certainly to relate to claims for means tested benefits (such as pension credit) where it only becomes apparent after the death that the claimant had not been entitled to them for at least some portion the time they were being claimed.

And it's been reported on these boards before that DWP will often get n touch to those handling the estates of those in receipt of pension credit and similar only after probate has been obtained, when the amount declared for probate is flagged as being  much larger than the savings limit for means tested benefits. This often turn out to be because the estate includes the value of the deceased's main residence, whereas their savings were indeed below the limit and they were fully entitled to the benefits they had been claiming.  

If your aunt wasn't receiving such benefits then it is unlikely that there would be any further claim on the estate - a check of bank statements should show what benefits she was in receipt of.  

This is really useful, thank you. The only things I can see from her statements (I've gone back 7 years) that she received from DWP was state pension and winter fuel payment. However her pension was a fair bit above the state pension standard. This may be because she got the additional level (born in 1936) but there's no break down so I can't see where the extra was coming from. It just came in one lump sum.

As long as there were no means tested benefits being payed such as pension credit (which would appear as a separate payment) you should be in the clear.

Jowwie

I am executor of an estate where DWP need to recover pension credit. It was obvious to me from the bank statements that PC was being claimed. Statements say "DWP PC" every month.

I had flagged issues concerning this estate with DWP at date of death but they do not start investigating until after probate. Six months in my case.

The initial investigation was quite quick, contacted by them within a couple of weeks. Once their initial investigation agreed with me there was an issue (that took DWP about 2 months) they request years of bank statements. That is when their process slows right down. I have been waiting approaching a further year now for them to calculate the figure owed.

Frustratingly slow, but the beneficiaries are understanding that I cannot distribute anything until this concludes. 

I don't understand what has gone on with the estate  you mention where they heard nothing at all for over a year. A previous estate I dealt with (nothing means tested) I just waited six months after probate granted to allow time for any debts to surface. DWP should have contacted you well within that time if they are involved.

p00hsticks

CalicoB said:

p00hsticks said:

CalicoB said:

I'm in the process of administering my late aunt's estate, and DWP have asked for a repayment of state pension, which I have sent. However I'm now nervous that there may be other claims made much further down the line, and I would have no way of knowing this was coming.

What other benefits was your aunt claiming (if any) ? If DWP were informed in a timely manner of the death , then any further requests from them for repayments would almost certainly to relate to claims for means tested benefits (such as pension credit) where it only becomes apparent after the death that the claimant had not been entitled to them for at least some portion the time they were being claimed.

And it's been reported on these boards before that DWP will often get n touch to those handling the estates of those in receipt of pension credit and similar only after probate has been obtained, when the amount declared for probate is flagged as being  much larger than the savings limit for means tested benefits. This often turn out to be because the estate includes the value of the deceased's main residence, whereas their savings were indeed below the limit and they were fully entitled to the benefits they had been claiming.  

If your aunt wasn't receiving such benefits then it is unlikely that there would be any further claim on the estate - a check of bank statements should show what benefits she was in receipt of.  

This is really useful, thank you. The only things I can see from her statements (I've gone back 7 years) that she received from DWP was state pension and winter fuel payment. However her pension was a fair bit above the state pension standard. This may be because she got the additional level (born in 1936) but there's no break down so I can't see where the extra was coming from. It just came in one lump sum.

Was she widowed ?  My mother is of a similar age and her state pension has recently nearly trebled (from just over £100 to just under £300) following the death of my father, as under the old rules widows inherit much of their husbands state pension. 

CalicoB

Yes she was, and seemed to get nearly £300 as well. That might have been it. 

I guess the only way to find out for sure is to write to them to ask them to confirm, and hope they answer. I’ve tried getting through on the phone, but nothing.

CalicoB

Jowwie said:

I am executor of an estate where DWP need to recover pension credit. It was obvious to me from the bank statements that PC was being claimed. Statements say "DWP PC" every month.

I had flagged issues concerning this estate with DWP at date of death but they do not start investigating until after probate. Six months in my case.

The initial investigation was quite quick, contacted by them within a couple of weeks. Once their initial investigation agreed with me there was an issue (that took DWP about 2 months) they request years of bank statements. That is when their process slows right down. I have been waiting approaching a further year now for them to calculate the figure owed.

Frustratingly slow, but the beneficiaries are understanding that I cannot distribute anything until this concludes. 

I don't understand what has gone on with the estate  you mention where they heard nothing at all for over a year. A previous estate I dealt with (nothing means tested) I just waited six months after probate granted to allow time for any debts to surface. DWP should have contacted you well within that time if they are involved.

Waiting six months to hear whether there is an investigation or debts to surface seems reasonable to me. There’s nothing else to wait for with this estate; no property, no children, no spouse, no debts etc., so the only thing I’m waiting for is DWP and HMRC at this point. All I want to know from them really is whether they are still working it out, or if no news means there’s nothing as they’ve said this don’t confirm if this is the case.

SkyeD

My dad was overpaid two weeks worth of state pension but DWP requested it back (in their debt collector letter!) within 4 weeks of his death (Sept 2022).

My mum received pension savings credit for a period of 38 weeks, amounting to no more than £450 in total.  After she died (June 2023), and after probate was granted (October 2023), DWP/HMRC sent several letters asking for proof of savings that she had when we applied for pension savings credit and savings that she had at her time of death.  They asked for bank statements from Sept 2022 to October 2023, house sale details from February 2024, proof that my parent's house was 'tenants in common' - an awful lot of paperwork. It took them until two weeks ago to finalise their investigation and then to confirm that she owed nothing.  

Newly_retired

My husband was executor for his mother's estate. DWP kept asking for more and more information including bank statements goig back more than 7 years which were impossible to obtain. This was in relation to eligibility for Pension Credit. As stated above, the Probate figures included the value of the property, which is of course of no relevance in a claim for PC. It turned out that DWP did not even need to investigate her capital, as she was on an Assessed Income Period, meaning that any change in her capital was irrelevant. So much time wasted, so much worry, all for nothing. About a two year delay.