Bar stools from IKEA, my rights??

powerful_Rogue

RefluentBeans said:

forgotmyname said:

If finding out that the items were incorrectly assembled is a burden, how much of a burdeb is a court case?

Correct that you don't need an expert but what will be their evidence when they simply say the fixings were
overtightened?

Like I said - it’s the probability the court will look at. 

It’s just a commonly quoted thing that everyone claims on this board that you need a report. After 6 months it is on the consumer to evidence that the product is faulty but like I said - that could be just bringing in photos of the faulty product or the product itself. 

If in this case the OP used a screwdriver (not drill or electric screwdriver) and followed the instructions; I would still say the product is faulty even if the OP did ‘overtighten’ the screws. If it is possible to over tighten the screws to the point where the product begins to fail, and you expect an average consumer to put the product together it should be robust enough for a consumer to do that. I personally wouldn’t know when the screw is firmly in and over tightened. When the screw stops turning easily is when I stop. 

Ikea instructions are known for the simplicity - it means if the product is that sensitive to a bit of over tightening I would still say it’s faulty. 

Would I have to consult with an instruction expert to see if the instructions are also faulty? Or would the evidence of the instructions not being suitable be enough? Or would I need to commission a PhD student to do a sociological study to determine if the average person would over tighten the product? 

I totally disagree with this post. I can't see what good bringing in photos or the faulty product would do. The crucial bit of information is why it is faulty and what caused that fault.

On the balance of probabilities, Ikea saying that the fault as occured due to the screw being over tightened, I believe would be enough for Ikea to win without any further evidence from the OP.

Lorian

What model stool. It could be the right screws were not chosen if two sizes existed in the build.

RefluentBeans

powerful_Rogue said:

RefluentBeans said:

forgotmyname said:

If finding out that the items were incorrectly assembled is a burden, how much of a burdeb is a court case?

Correct that you don't need an expert but what will be their evidence when they simply say the fixings were
overtightened?

Like I said - it’s the probability the court will look at. 

It’s just a commonly quoted thing that everyone claims on this board that you need a report. After 6 months it is on the consumer to evidence that the product is faulty but like I said - that could be just bringing in photos of the faulty product or the product itself. 

If in this case the OP used a screwdriver (not drill or electric screwdriver) and followed the instructions; I would still say the product is faulty even if the OP did ‘overtighten’ the screws. If it is possible to over tighten the screws to the point where the product begins to fail, and you expect an average consumer to put the product together it should be robust enough for a consumer to do that. I personally wouldn’t know when the screw is firmly in and over tightened. When the screw stops turning easily is when I stop. 

Ikea instructions are known for the simplicity - it means if the product is that sensitive to a bit of over tightening I would still say it’s faulty. 

Would I have to consult with an instruction expert to see if the instructions are also faulty? Or would the evidence of the instructions not being suitable be enough? Or would I need to commission a PhD student to do a sociological study to determine if the average person would over tighten the product? 

I totally disagree with this post. I can't see what good bringing in photos or the faulty product would do. The crucial bit of information is why it is faulty and what caused that fault.

On the balance of probabilities, Ikea saying that the fault as occured due to the screw being over tightened, I believe would be enough for Ikea to win without any further evidence from the OP.

I buy a Luis Vuitton bag - 6months 1 day after purchase the zip breaks. Am I expected to go to a tailors to exercised my rights? That seem to be the opposite of what the protections are in place for.

back to this specific case - OP should start with contacting the retailer to open a dialogue. I really can’t see the point in wasting time and money in getting a report before they’ve even spoken to the retailer. 

If the OP has built the furniture themselves and followed the instructions, then I really don’t see what a report is going to say. If the product is unable to withstand normal consumers putting it together and requires specialists to put it together then it is not fit for purpose, and hence faulty.

Until the OP replies we’re having strawman arguments and I won’t be responding any more. Think the forum could do without another 10 page thread. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RefluentBeans said:

If in this case the OP used a screwdriver (not drill or electric screwdriver) and followed the instructions; I would still say the product is faulty even if the OP did ‘overtighten’ the screws. If it is possible to over tighten the screws to the point where the product begins to fail, and you expect an average consumer to put the product together it should be robust enough for a consumer to do that. I personally wouldn’t know when the screw is firmly in and over tightened. When the screw stops turning easily is when I stop. 

Ikea instructions are known for the simplicity - it means if the product is that sensitive to a bit of over tightening I would still say it’s faulty. 

Would I have to consult with an instruction expert to see if the instructions are also faulty? Or would the evidence of the instructions not being suitable be enough? Or would I need to commission a PhD student to do a sociological study to determine if the average person would over tighten the product? 

It's a pretty sensible viewpoint and I agree, also an over tightened screw is like to puncture the outer cover sooner than 18 months and Ikea stuff is generally well designed so there shouldn't be capacity to over tighten unless you are doing something really wrong. I guess it could be argued someone too heavy has recently been sitting on the stool (no offence to the OP intended ) which would also raise the question of whether the stool comes with a stated limit, but

RefluentBeans said:In this case (and most cases) I would recommend the OP go and speak to the retailer first before commissioning a report into the fault.

This is probably the most sensible suggestion, OP if you are still reading Google CEO email and search that site for Ikea, use the email address there to politely outline the issue and see what they say. You should get an email from their "Senior Resolution Generalist UK & Ireland", or at least that's what happened when I emailed them 9 months ago, and maybe they'll be more willing to help than general CS even if out of "good will".

The whole court debate doesn't really help the OP, I doubt Ikea are going to see it through small claims for a few barstools but the guidance notes on the CRA make reference to whether something needs testing or detailed examination or if in contrast it was clear from looking at the goods...., in the absence of the judge being a furniture expect perhaps in their opinion it will be clear from looking at the goods, not that in this case I would recommend basing a case on that hope  

powerful_Rogue

I thought it was a given that you would exhaust all avenues of communication with the retailer first before considering any legal action.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'd always recommend someone to get a report before taking the matter to SCC. If the report works in your favour, then you just the cost of the report onto the claim.

sheramber

RefluentBeans said:

powerful_Rogue said:

RefluentBeans said:

forgotmyname said:

If finding out that the items were incorrectly assembled is a burden, how much of a burdeb is a court case?

Correct that you don't need an expert but what will be their evidence when they simply say the fixings were
overtightened?

Like I said - it’s the probability the court will look at. 

It’s just a commonly quoted thing that everyone claims on this board that you need a report. After 6 months it is on the consumer to evidence that the product is faulty but like I said - that could be just bringing in photos of the faulty product or the product itself. 

If in this case the OP used a screwdriver (not drill or electric screwdriver) and followed the instructions; I would still say the product is faulty even if the OP did ‘overtighten’ the screws. If it is possible to over tighten the screws to the point where the product begins to fail, and you expect an average consumer to put the product together it should be robust enough for a consumer to do that. I personally wouldn’t know when the screw is firmly in and over tightened. When the screw stops turning easily is when I stop. 

Ikea instructions are known for the simplicity - it means if the product is that sensitive to a bit of over tightening I would still say it’s faulty. 

Would I have to consult with an instruction expert to see if the instructions are also faulty? Or would the evidence of the instructions not being suitable be enough? Or would I need to commission a PhD student to do a sociological study to determine if the average person would over tighten the product? 

I totally disagree with this post. I can't see what good bringing in photos or the faulty product would do. The crucial bit of information is why it is faulty and what caused that fault.

On the balance of probabilities, Ikea saying that the fault as occured due to the screw being over tightened, I believe would be enough for Ikea to win without any further evidence from the OP.

I buy a Luis Vuitton bag - 6months 1 day after purchase the zip breaks. Am I expected to go to a tailors to exercised my rights? That seem to be the opposite of what the protections are in place for.

back to this specific case - OP should start with contacting the retailer to open a dialogue. I really can’t see the point in wasting time and money in getting a report before they’ve even spoken to the retailer. 

If the OP has built the furniture themselves and followed the instructions, then I really don’t see what a report is going to say. If the product is unable to withstand normal consumers putting it together and requires specialists to put it together then it is not fit for purpose, and hence faulty.

Until the OP replies we’re having strawman arguments and I won’t be responding any more. Think the forum could do without another 10 page thread. 

Did you miss 

IKEA have refused to take them back as it is past the 1 year warranty, however I have explained that this is definitely a manufacturing fault. 

Alderbank

The OP explained it to IKEA but they have not returned to explain it to us.

All they have shown us so far is an out-of-focus 10-legged spider on a white wall.

My nephew used to have an interesting job at IKEA dealing with customers who returned with part-constructed items that 'had a manufacturing fault'.
You would not believe how many different ways there are to confuse left with right, up with down, inside with outside, front with back, different shapes and sizes of fasteners, etc.

sheramber

Alderbank said:

The OP explained it to IKEA but they have not returned to explain it to us.

All they have shown us so far is an out-of-focus 10-legged spider on a white wall.

My nephew used to have an interesting job at IKEA dealing with customers who returned with part-constructed items that 'had a manufacturing fault'.
You would not believe how many different ways there are to confuse left with right, up with down, inside with outside, front with back, different shapes and sizes of fasteners, etc.

I used to take a dog training class and found many people did not know their left from their right.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

sheramber said:

Did you miss 

IKEA have refused to take them back as it is past the 1 year warranty, however I have explained that this is definitely a manufacturing fault. 

To be fair that doesn't say Ikea disagree it's a fault, they are just using the company line of past 1 year, not our problem in the hope the customer goes away, it's doubtful OP has told Ikea their position is that the goods do not conform to the contract in terms of durability under satisfactory quality and as a result they are seeking a remedy under the CRA simply because people don't talk like that, which is why they come here for advice  

sheramber

The poster I was  quoting said that the OP had not spoken to IKEA when I’m fact he had spoken to them.

Ikea’s response was not referred to