EU-261 Passenger Rights where I cancelled the delayed flight more than 14 days notice

NottinghamMan

I need help with these rules please.

Are we entitled to difference in flight fare price when the airline gives us more than 14 days notice of a flight change?
Where the change is more than 5 hours delay?
Ryanair offered us refund or the later flight or a different flight.
And we choose to cancel the first Ryanair flight & get another flight with Jet2.
Is this re-routing?
I’m not asking for compensation, just if Ryanair pay for the more expensive airfare we had to book, as Ryanir wouldn’t let us have refund until 90 days before even though they knew about it 10 months before. They do this often & won’t allow refund till 90 days before because they say the flight may come back on.

Ryanar as many know, change our flight times but don’t let us do anything about it until they email us 90 or 120 days before.

 

2 people travelling.
Cost was £703.12
Reservation:

FD7BJF

To Lanzarote FR5749

East Midlands - Lanzarote

Fri, 03 Nov 23

Departure time - 06:15

Arrival time - 10:25

(EMA) - (ACE)

 

To East Midlands FR8685

Lanzarote - East Midlands

Thu, 09 Nov 23

Departure time - 13:45

Arrival time - 18:00

(ACE) - (EMA)

Changed them to
Outbound

East Midlands (EMA) to Lanzarote (ACE)

Fri 03Nov2023 Flight FR3172 Depart EMA at 1605 and arrive ACE at 2015

Return

Lanzarote (ACE) to East Midlands (EMA)

Thu 09Nov2023 Flight FR3173 Depart ACE at 1915 and arrive EMA at 2330

More than 5 hours delay.
So we opted for the refund.
And chose Jet2. New flight cost £1049.
£345.88 difference.

Are we entitled to this difference under the rules?

Ryaniar is not clear in their interpretation of the rules. And I find other sites not clear either.

Mark_d

https://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-delay-compensation

NottinghamMan

Mark_d said:

https://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-delay-compensation

Thanks, I've contacted them.

eskbanker

It'll be interesting to learn of Bott's take on this, but my understanding is that, when faced with a choice of refund or rerouting under article 8 of the regulations, if you choose the refund then you effectively waive your rights to rerouting.

It may be different if you made it clear to Ryanair that their proposed rerouting options weren't suitable and demanded they do something better, i.e. giving them the opportunity to put you onto another flight closer to their original schedule, but to be honest if they flew later that same afternoon it's unlikely that this would be viewed as unreasonable.

Did you simply choose the refund and rebook yourself onto a Jet2 flight in the morning, or did you actively engage in any debate with Ryanair about (un)suitability of their revised flights?

NottinghamMan

eskbanker said:

It'll be interesting to learn of Bott's take on this, but my understanding is that, when faced with a choice of refund or rerouting under article 8 of the regulations, if you choose the refund then you effectively waive your rights to rerouting.

It may be different if you made it clear to Ryanair that their proposed rerouting options weren't suitable and demanded they do something better, i.e. giving them the opportunity to put you onto another flight closer to their original schedule, but to be honest if they flew later that same afternoon it's unlikely that this would be viewed as unreasonable.

Did you simply choose the refund and rebook yourself onto a Jet2 flight in the morning, or did you actively engage in any debate with Ryanair about (un)suitability of their revised flights?

And that's the thing, extremely hard to talk to someone at Ryanair & if you can, they don't get what you saying.
Yes the later flight wasn't bad in scheme of things. but we paid double for the better flight times as detest the later flights.

I tried engaging with Ryanair, got the robots, got humans saying Sorry to hear about Check in AAAHhhhhh. So rebooked Jet2 before they increased more.
Telling me 10 characters too shortdddddddddd

Westin

Ryanair will not pay the fare difference to your new Jet2 booking.

BTW, did you mean 2024, or is this a post event question?

NottinghamMan

Westin said:

Ryanair will not pay the fare difference to your new Jet2 booking.

BTW, did you mean 2024, or is this a post event question?

Ok thanks, when does re-routing apply then, when they give us less than 14 days notice?
2023, post event. Just getting annoyed with Ryanair changing lots of flights of ours, but not letting us do anything about it till 90 days before.
And changing planes after we've paid for extra leg room & then making us jump through hoops to get the leg room refund. 

Westin

‘Re-routing’ is covered under EU261 as an option. I believe you just asked for a refund. At that point that’s the end.

Even if you had asked FR to re-routing you, to be honest I doubt you would have gotten anywhere with them.  

As this is a past event, perhaps time to move on.

NottinghamMan

Westin said:

‘Re-routing’ is covered under EU261 as an option. I believe you just asked for a refund. At that point that’s the end.

Even if you had asked FR to re-routing you, to be honest I doubt you would have gotten anywhere with them.  

As this is a past event, perhaps time to move on.

Yes, I asked for refund as couldn't understand their rerouting bit. Yes we don't get anywhere with em, do we.
I bought it back up, cause they've done it on another 8 flights with us since. 
I did take their other flight change offer, as only to Birmingham instead of East Midlands, so only 60 miles away instead of 20 miles. But be nice to know if I can choose another airline & they will pay.
As they change the times a year before AFTER we've paid. But don't let us do anything about it till 90 days before. Jet2 aren't daft, they then increase the prices at that 90 day deadline. Whereas if we could get our money back once Ryanair know, we not held ransom. Same with booked hotel too on free cancellation. Can't change that earlier when cheaper. 

eskbanker

NottinghamMan said:

Yes, I asked for refund as couldn't understand their rerouting bit. Yes we don't get anywhere with em, do we.
I bought it back up, cause they've done it on another 8 flights with us since. 
I did take their other flight change offer, as only to Birmingham instead of East Midlands, so only 60 miles away instead of 20 miles. But be nice to know if I can choose another airline & they will pay.

When cancelling flights, airlines are obliged by article 8 to offer the choice between refund or rerouting:

passengers shall be offered the choice between:

(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

Rerouting is a generic term and doesn't in itself signify the use of other airlines, so it isn't a blanket provision to allow free choice!  The CAA offers guidance about how the regulations should be interpreted, and clause 4.2 highlights their expectation that other airlines only need to be considered where the original airline doesn't have a replacement flight on the same route and day:

in circumstances where there is no re-routing option under Article 8(1)(b) on its own services or, where applicable, on the services of its partner airlines, on the same day as the original flight and via the same route, the CAA’s view is that the airline should next seek to identify rerouting options on the services of alternative airlines on the same day as the original flight and via the same route.

Re-routing in accordance with Article 8 of Regulation (EU) 261/2004 (caa.co.uk)

Hence my view that Ryanair moving you from one flight to another on the same route and same day is likely to be considered compliant with their obligations, rather than justifying rebooking on another airline.

NottinghamMan

eskbanker said:

When cancelling flights, airlines are obliged by article 8 to offer the choice between refund or rerouting:

passengers shall be offered the choice between:

(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

Rerouting is a generic term and doesn't in itself signify the use of other airlines, so it isn't a blanket provision to allow free choice!  The CAA offers guidance about how the regulations should be interpreted, and clause 4.2 highlights their expectation that other airlines only need to be considered where the original airline doesn't have a replacement flight on the same route and day:

in circumstances where there is no re-routing option under Article 8(1)(b) on its own services or, where applicable, on the services of its partner airlines, on the same day as the original flight and via the same route, the CAA’s view is that the airline should next seek to identify rerouting options on the services of alternative airlines on the same day as the original flight and via the same route.

Re-routing in accordance with Article 8 of Regulation (EU) 261/2004 (caa.co.uk)

Hence my view that Ryanair moving you from one flight to another on the same route and same day is likely to be considered compliant with their obligations, rather than justifying rebooking on another airline.

I'm gonna's save your words as you explain it much clearer than the airlines & other authority bodies. As the odd time, I see it said as:
It is our choice to take Airlines offer of alternative flight or we go get our own & put EU261 claim in.
Yes your view, is same as my view, except for the much later flight times. And then they do offer refund.