Heat Pump Pricing versus current costs

Reed_Richards

I'm not sure if that is true.  You certainly need planning permission for an ASHP that can do cooling as well as heating but I can find several websites that say you don't need it for an air conditioning unit (i.e. "permitted development").  This makes no sense but since when did planning permission rules have to make sense? 

matt_drummer

Air conditioning is an air source heat pump.

Reed_Richards

These day it is, yes.  Nevertheless:

https://controlled-climate.co.uk/do-i-need-planning-permission-for-air-conditioner-units/
https://lacltd.uk.com/do-air-conditioning-units-need-planning-permission
https://www.evergreenaircon.co.uk/2022/03/15/do-i-need-planning-permission-for-air-conditioning/
https://aacairconditioning.co.uk/are-air-conditioning-units-included-in-permitted-development-rights/

etc etc.  Numerous websites assert that you can install an AC unit under permitted development.

wrf12345

"Permitted development* only applies to a single outdoor unit being used for heating. If you use the unit for cooling, or install more than one, planning permission is required. With changes to legislation introduced last year, the council now have up to ten years to serve enforcement notices for planning & building regs breaches."

The ten year rule seems to apply to things done post April 2024 and does not apply to an existing single dwelling, as far as I can discern from a google search but I am often entirely wrong about these things. I was planning on installing the "outside" unit in my lean-to area on the south face of the residence, having both a plastic roof and lots of windows it does collect heat despite being vented to the outside by an intentional large gap left on the bottom of the door. So possibly classed as an internal installation and thus dodging this particular bullet if air-air. BTW because of the lean-to the house does not collect heat unless I open all the windows and doors in the summer so I would never need air-conditioning.

matt_drummer

Reed_Richards said:

These day it is, yes.  Nevertheless:

https://controlled-climate.co.uk/do-i-need-planning-permission-for-air-conditioner-units/
https://lacltd.uk.com/do-air-conditioning-units-need-planning-permission
https://www.evergreenaircon.co.uk/2022/03/15/do-i-need-planning-permission-for-air-conditioning/
https://aacairconditioning.co.uk/are-air-conditioning-units-included-in-permitted-development-rights/

etc etc.  Numerous websites assert that you can install an AC unit under permitted development.

They may do but they are not the law.

They conveniently leave out the fact that they must be used solely for heating purposes to qualify as permitted development

Reed_Richards

I've searched the Planning Portal and found this https://www.planningportal.co.uk/planning/sustainability-and-planning/home-energy-generation/heat-pumps which says:

Heat pumps
Although we may not realise it heat pumps are very familiar to us, fridges and air conditioners are two examples.

Are we saying that a fridge needs planning permission?  It is without a shadow of a doubt an ASHP used for cooling and some of the larger ones probably exceed 0.6 m3 to boot.

I cannot find anything on the Planning Portal that offers specific guidance on air conditioning units.  But the government grant for ASHPs does not cover air-to-air heat pumps so the government clearly sees a distinction.

I can find lots of sites that say that an air conditioning unit is a "permitted development".  I haven't yet found one that says it isn't.       

matt_drummer

Fridges and freezers are not normally used outdoors and even if they were they are not installed, they are a portable domestic appliance, it is not development of a property.

Planning Portal does give specific rules on what constitutes permitted development, that it is only permitted development if the air source heat pump is only used for heating. They do not need to differentiate between air to air and air to water as air source heat pump encompasses all of them. They obviously do recognise a difference because they stipulate that permitted development only applies to air source heat pumps used for heating, use for cooling is not permitted development. 

Therefore, it is beyond doubt that an air source heat pump used for cooling is not permitted development and requires planning permission. It is the only website/document that counts. What other websites say is of no relevance, they are not the law, Planning Portal is.

The only grey area is that they don't say capable of cooling, they say only used for heating.

Whether you would have to and/or how you would demonstrate that an air to air heat pump was only used for heating is something I don't know the answer to. 

matt_drummer

I would also add that if anybody believes that the permitted development rules do not apply to air conditioning units then that means that none of the rules apply, not just the one about only being used for heating.

Therefore, if the permitted development rules don't apply to air conditioning units you can have as many of them as you like, of any size and put them wherever you want to.

Reed_Richards

@matt_drummer, I'm 99% sure you are correct but nevertheless I found a lot of misinformation online and could find nothing to confirm you are correct that had a specific reference to "air conditioning".  Maybe you can find a reference?  I completely agree with your point about "permitted development" but I can't find anything specific to "air conditioning" on the Planning Portal; I can't understand why not.  If they want the rules that apply to ASHPs (used for heating) to apply equally to air conditioning units (which might never be used for heating) then it would only take one short sentence to make that explicit.  

matt_drummer

Reed_Richards said:

@matt_drummer, I'm 99% sure you are correct but nevertheless I found a lot of misinformation online and could find nothing to confirm you are correct that had a specific reference to "air conditioning".  Maybe you can find a reference?  I completely agree with your point about "permitted development" but I can't find anything specific to "air conditioning" on the Planning Portal; I can't understand why not.  If they want the rules that apply to ASHPs (used for heating) to apply equally to air conditioning units (which might never be used for heating) then it would only take one short sentence to make that explicit.  

Hi Reed,

Air conditioning is just a way of describing an air to air heat source pump that can cool down a space.

It's just a familiar terminology that we all understand, everybody knows that air conditioning is cooling even though it doesn't mention cooling specifically.

If you were in a car or in a building and it was getting a bit hot you wouldn't say  `please can you switch on the air source heat pump in cooling mode', you would just say `please turn on the air conditioning'

Climate control is another terminology that we are familiar with in cars. It's is just maintaining a requested temperature by heating or cooling as necessary. Some cars do this with water heating and air conditioning.

My Tesla does it all with an air source heat pump.


The Planning Portal doesn't mention air conditioning as it doesn't need to, the law applies to air source heat pumps.

Air to air heat pumps that are capable of cooling (commonly referred to as air conditioning) are air source heat pumps.

Do you think air conditioning is something else other than an air source heat pump?


There is something specific to `air conditioning' on the Planning Portal, an air source heat pump that is used for cooling is not permitted development and requires planning permission.


Regards,

Matthew.