Council tax

93123

Hi,

I'm in Wales

I moved into a shared house on a separate room contract in 2022 and a few weeks later moved to a different room in another property they were managing - no new contract for that, they said it just carried over and to pay the difference in rent. I moved out in May 2023.

The agent told me they wouldn't declare my name for council tax when I enquired how it works and we would just pay for the gas on a top up card alongside rent.

A former tenant contacted me today and I've been made aware the agent submitted my name as part of a list of 3 tenants under a joint tenancy for council tax owing for around £5000. It was never a joint tenancy, I didn't sign anything or know anyone in the house. I rented the first room for about 3 weeks.

The house share was dodgy and I had to report them to the council for overcrowding as they turned storage rooms into bedrooms and there were around 13 people living there, yet only 3 people's names were submitted. I was paying £500 a month for a glorified storage cupboard as it was, plus gas.

The notice is an enforcement letter sent to one person's address. I've never received anything from them myself. The surname is wrong also, they submitted the name as my first and middle name.

Please can you help? I'm nervous to even get in touch with the council in case they say it's tough luck. I have an email from the DPS stating the address as "room _" as well as a photo of my contract stating only my name on a contract for a specific room also.

Thank you

anselld

You could tell the Council it is an HMO with individual room tenancies and as such the Landlord is liable.  However, if your name has not been mentioned in any official demand then it is not currently your problem so you could just wait and see what happens.

marcia_

93123 said:

Hi,

I'm in Wales

I moved into a shared house on a separate room contract in 2022 and a few weeks later moved to a different room in another property they were managing - no new contract for that, they said it just carried over and to pay the difference in rent. I moved out in May 2023.

The agent told me they wouldn't declare my name for council tax when I enquired how it works and we would just pay for the gas on a top up card alongside rent.

A former tenant contacted me today and I've been made aware the agent submitted my name as part of a list of 3 tenants under a joint tenancy for council tax owing for around £5000. It was never a joint tenancy, I didn't sign anything or know anyone in the house. I rented the first room for about 3 weeks.

The house share was dodgy and I had to report them to the council for overcrowding as they turned storage rooms into bedrooms and there were around 13 people living there, yet only 3 people's names were submitted. I was paying £500 a month for a glorified storage cupboard as it was, plus gas.

The notice is an enforcement letter sent to one person's address. I've never received anything from them myself. The surname is wrong also, they submitted the name as my first and middle name.

Please can you help? I'm nervous to even get in touch with the council in case they say it's tough luck. I have an email from the DPS stating the address as "room _" as well as a photo of my contract stating only my name on a contract for a specific room also.

Thank you

 Speak to the council and let them know it was a hmo and if you have it show them your contract. Do this as soon as you can before any court action is taken to make sure they take the landlord to Court and not you. 

Bookworm105

be careful of the advice above, it seems to have missed the fact you are talking about something from 2022 when council tax rules were different back then.
It was possible at that time to have a property occupied on a let by room basis where the occupants were liable for the council tax on the whole property.
There was, at that time, a distinction between HMO for council tax purposes and HMO for housing law purposes. England and Wales having the same law (but not elsewhere in UK)

It is only from 2 Dec 23 that the rules were changed making it impossible to "disaggregate" a property on a room by room basis for council tax. From Dec 23 (incl in Wales) onwards the LL is the only person legally liable for council tax 

Albermarle

The agent told me they wouldn't declare my name for council tax when I enquired how it works 

Did that not sound a bit dodgy at the time?

93123

Bookworm105 said:

be careful of the advice above, it seems to have missed the fact you are talking about something from 2022 when council tax rules were different back then.
It was possible at that time to have a property occupied on a let by room basis where the occupants were liable for the council tax on the whole property.
There was, at that time, a distinction between HMO for council tax purposes and HMO for housing law purposes. England and Wales having the same law (but not elsewhere in UK)

It is only from 2 Dec 23 that the rules were changed making it impossible to "disaggregate" a property on a room by room basis for council tax. From Dec 23 (incl in Wales) onwards the LL is the only person legally liable for council tax 

Thank you, I did look it up and it seems that as long as it's not like a bedsit and each room doesn't have its own council tax banding then it should be a HMO for council tax purposes. It was a house with one council tax band. Separate locks on bedrooms.

Is that correct or have I missed something?

93123

Albermarle said:

The agent told me they wouldn't declare my name for council tax when I enquired how it works 

Did that not sound a bit dodgy at the time?

Kind of, I was in a desperate situation at the time and when I saw that landlords are liable for council tax in HMOs I just went with it and reasoned that it shouldn't matter either way, I didn't particularly understand why they said that though... If I found that it was my direct responsibility I would have set it up with the council myself, but it was meant to be the landlord collecting it from tenants if that is what they wanted - this didn't happen. Until 2 years later and they've submitted a "joint tenancy" to the council which never existed.

They turned out to be a bunch of crooks in breach of various things, asking them for clarification on anything proved to be useless.

It's the first and hopefully last time I ever have to go into a random houseshare like that.

93123

I'm actually starting to really !!!!!! myself now that I've overlooked something and it won't be classed as a council tax HMO for some reason and I'll be given this bill at the worst possible time, 2 years after moving out, and because it seems to cover the whole house rather than just a portion for my room I'll be liable for the full £5000+... Everyone else was from abroad apart from me, they're not even here anymore, and they'll only go after me...

Or would they apportion an amount per room?

How could I be liable for 5 grand from renting one bedroom in a dodgy, overcrowded houseshare for 9 months? The place was an absolute nightmare even without this and was investigated by the council.

I was about to become homeless because I couldn't find anywhere in the space of 3 months and took the first place that would take me, not understanding the whole HMO thing but I thought I had figured out the council tax liability part

I feel sick

theartfullodger

Provide council with copy of contract and details of other occupants showing it was a HMO.

Next time be more careful.

Don't trust agent to look after you as a tenant . They are landlord's agent, not yours, they work for and are paid by landlord.

93123

theartfullodger said:

Provide council with copy of contract and details of other occupants showing it was a HMO.

Next time be more careful.

Thank you. I'm in the process of buying my first home, it's been a massive struggle saving and I'm almost at the end of the process - if it goes through. I'm not well off but it's a cheap place, so this will really f**k my life up if they come after me for the full lot. I'm usually on top of things and have never missed a bill in my life.

I've sent the part of the contract I could find (binned everything eventually but I had emailed the front page showing that it's just my name and a specific room number to Shelter as I had to complain about the place), plus my DPS email showing room #. I'm hoping that's all it takes. 

Pardon the life story, I'm panicking until they get back to me

Bookworm105

93123 said:

I'm actually starting to really !!!!!! myself now that I've overlooked something and it won't be classed as a council tax HMO for some reason and I'll be given this bill at the worst possible time, 2 years after moving out, and because it seems to cover the whole house rather than just a portion for my room I'll be liable for the full £5000+... Everyone else was from abroad apart from me, they're not even here anymore, and they'll only go after me...

Or would they apportion an amount per room?

How could I be liable for 5 grand from renting one bedroom in a dodgy, overcrowded houseshare for 9 months? The place was an absolute nightmare even without this and was investigated by the council.

I was about to become homeless because I couldn't find anywhere in the space of 3 months and took the first place that would take me, not understanding the whole HMO thing but I thought I had figured out the council tax liability part

I feel sick

The Council Tax status of the property is a matter of statute law, contract law (your tenancy agreement) cannot override statute law.

Prove it was a CT HMO and you are safe and sound as the LL is the only liable person.
The Council Tax (Liability for Owners) Regulations 1992 (legislation.gov.uk)

If you cannot prove CT HMO status then I'm sorry to say that CT is on a joint and several liability basis, ie any one person is liable for the whole lot.
In previous posts you stated "the agent submitted my name as part of a list of 3 tenants under a joint tenancy"
That is crucial wording!
Do you have a formal formal tenancy agreement which shows you are NOT on a joint tenancy? In other words your tenancy was of a specified room only with access to shared parts and therefore each room had its own individual CT banding and only that room's occupant was liable for the CT for that room? (Or sorry to say, more likely there whole property is one band and "the" occupants are liable)

It would seem the council are convinced you had a joint tenancy, so CT applied to the whole property as a single bill, with each occupant jointly and severally liable for the whole lot.
There is no "my share" for CT purposes. The council will therefore chase whoever they have contact with, and you are the easy target in that sense as you are the only one still in the UK 😣