Council tax

93123

Bookworm105 said:

93123 said:

I'm actually starting to really !!!!!! myself now that I've overlooked something and it won't be classed as a council tax HMO for some reason and I'll be given this bill at the worst possible time, 2 years after moving out, and because it seems to cover the whole house rather than just a portion for my room I'll be liable for the full £5000+... Everyone else was from abroad apart from me, they're not even here anymore, and they'll only go after me...

Or would they apportion an amount per room?

How could I be liable for 5 grand from renting one bedroom in a dodgy, overcrowded houseshare for 9 months? The place was an absolute nightmare even without this and was investigated by the council.

I was about to become homeless because I couldn't find anywhere in the space of 3 months and took the first place that would take me, not understanding the whole HMO thing but I thought I had figured out the council tax liability part

I feel sick

The Council Tax status of the property is a matter of statute law, contract law (your tenancy agreement) cannot override statute law.

Prove it was a CT HMO and you are safe and sound as the LL is the only liable person.

If you cannot prove CT HMO status then I'm sorry to say that CT is always on a joint and several liability basis, ie any one person is liable for the whole lot. There is no "my share" for CT purposes, irrespective of what your tenancy agreement says. The council will therefore chase whoever they have contact with, and you are the easy target in that sense as you are the only one still in the UK 😣

Ah I really hope that doesn't happen. That would be beyond unfair for what I was renting - a disgusting, overpriced room. £550 + gas, for a room in a falling apart house. Then lumped with the entire bill for people I didn't know or choose to live with (agents moved them in and out constantly without warning).

Do you know much about what makes a place a CT HMO? I've looked at several websites and they all say something slightly different, from simply having locks on doors to having kitchens fitted in there etc. Until today it really just looked like HMO = landlords problem. 

The council has said it's registered as a HMO when but not specifically CT yet

Thank you for your reply 

Bookworm105

93123 said:

 

Do you know much about what makes a place a CT HMO? I've looked at several websites and they all say something slightly different, from simply having locks on doors to having kitchens fitted in there etc. Until today it really just looked like HMO = landlords problem.

The council has said it's registered as a HMO when but not specifically CT yet

I edited my previous post to now include the link to the statute CT HMO definition 

93123

Bookworm105 said:

93123 said:

 

Do you know much about what makes a place a CT HMO? I've looked at several websites and they all say something slightly different, from simply having locks on doors to having kitchens fitted in there etc. Until today it really just looked like HMO = landlords problem.

The council has said it's registered as a HMO when but not specifically CT yet

I edited my previous post to now include the link to the statute CT HMO definition 

Thank you, it seems to be this part:

Houses in multiple occupation, etc

Class C a dwelling inhabited by persons who do not constitute a single household, each of whom either–

(a)is a tenant of, or has a licence to occupy, part only of the dwelling; or

(b)has a licence to occupy but is not liable (whether alone or jointly with other persons) to pay rent or a licence fee in respect of the dwelling as a whole.

I had my own contract for a specific room and my rent was unaffected whether anyone else paid. It would have been around 5 grand a month with everyone paying that (~10 bedrooms). They submitted a joint tenancy to the council apparently, but I've never seen or signed anything with anyone else. I'm hoping this is correct.

Bookworm105

93123 said:

I had my own contract for a specific room and my rent was unaffected whether anyone else paid.

Then it appears you have a good case for claiming it has CT HMO status as a Class C dwelling under clause b).

The main niggle would be is your copy signed by the LL / agent on behalf of the LL ?
Otherwise it is just a bit of paper you could have knocked up yesterday (no disrespect intended! ) whereas it appears the council  have received a "joint tenancy" agreement, albeit a bit of paper you have not signed.

93123

Bookworm105 said:

93123 said:

I had my own contract for a specific room and my rent was unaffected whether anyone else paid.

Then it appears you have a good case for claiming it has CT HMO status as a Class C dwelling under clause b).

The main niggle would be is your copy signed by the LL / agent on behalf of the LL ?
Otherwise it is just a bit of paper you could have knocked up yesterday (no disrespect intended! ) whereas it appears the council  have received a "joint tenancy" agreement, albeit a bit of paper you have not signed.

Yep it's signed, edited to say I've just found the full physical copy 

I also have the group chats of multiple people complaining nearly every week about strangers the agents have moved in. Nobody knew each other, don't understand how we can be part of a joint contract with people we never agreed to share a house with 😅 thanks!

Bookworm105

93123 said:

Honestly it's just photos of the first two pages I salvaged from an email to Shelter Cymru a week after I moved in. I don't think I have the rest of it or physicals anywhere. Praying this is enough along with my deposit protection email for "room #". It has a scribble on it, can't even remember if that's mine!

shame, I wish you luck 🙏

93123 said:
I also have the group chats of multiple people complaining nearly every week about strangers the agents have moved in. Nobody knew each other, don't understand how we can be part of a joint contract with people we never agreed to share a house with 😅 thanks!

sorry, but such matters are irrelevant 
perfectly possible to have joint tenancy with complete strangers, just ask a university student 

93123

Bookworm105 said:

93123 said:

Honestly it's just photos of the first two pages I salvaged from an email to Shelter Cymru a week after I moved in. I don't think I have the rest of it or physicals anywhere. Praying this is enough along with my deposit protection email for "room #". It has a scribble on it, can't even remember if that's mine!

shame, I wish you luck 🙏

93123 said:
I also have the group chats of multiple people complaining nearly every week about strangers the agents have moved in. Nobody knew each other, don't understand how we can be part of a joint contract with people we never agreed to share a house with 😅 thanks!

sorry, but such matters are irrelevant 
perfectly possible to have joint tenancy with complete strangers, just ask a university student 

Oh I know, I did a joint tenancy in uni - but I agreed to it and signed a contract with their names on it. I meant I don't understand how they can claim it's a joint tenancy when it was never discussed or agreed.

Would they not have needed the tenants permission to (constantly) add more and more people to the supposed contract? It started out as 7-8 people and ended up with 14. I know Wales renting laws changed in December 2022 so for all I know they can add and remove as they please.

I've found the physical contract!