Has your domestic IOT appliance stopped working? Who pays?

sabeiura

Something that should affect quite a lot of consumers: I found that my 9 month old Internet Of Things enabled washing machine stopped being an IOT device yesterday; it was no longer controllable via its phone app. I contacted the (mainstream) manufacturer's support like and recieved summary "It's no longer supported due to changes in UK legislation" response. I batted this back with a request for a refund or compensation and wait to see what their next move is. In my case it is a problem because there are a lot of settings that are only available via the app (eg extra rinses, or using more water for the wash etc). The washing machine was sold, advertising the wifi control aspect and so my view is that this feature formed part of the product offering contract at the time of purchase. I have screenshots to this effect.

Clearly IOT devices can be made to operate securely, it justs costs more to develop and so it is arguable that this is the manufacturer's liablity if they marketed an insecure IOT device, but there must be a phenomenal population of IOT devies in our homes that face the same challenge. Who pays to fix them? My washing machine manufacturer is clearly hoping it's going to be me(!), but I will have my day in small claims court if need be ;-).

Alderbank

sabeiura said:

Something that should affect quite a lot of consumers: I found that my 9 month old Internet Of Things enabled washing machine stopped being an IOT device yesterday; it was no longer controllable via its phone app. I contacted the (mainstream) manufacturer's support like and recieved summary "It's no longer supported due to changes in UK legislation" response. I batted this back with a request for a refund or compensation and wait to see what their next move is. In my case it is a problem because there are a lot of settings that are only available via the app (eg extra rinses, or using more water for the wash etc). The washing machine was sold, advertising the wifi control aspect and so my view is that this feature formed part of the product offering contract at the time of purchase. I have screenshots to this effect.

Clearly IOT devices can be made to operate securely, it justs costs more to develop and so it is arguable that this is the manufacturer's liablity if they marketed an insecure IOT device, but there must be a phenomenal population of IOT devies in our homes that face the same challenge. Who pays to fix them? My washing machine manufacturer is clearly hoping it's going to be me(!), but I will have my day in small claims court if need be ;-).

Welcome to the forum.

It's not really a question of hoping, it's a matter of what your contact says.

What do the T&C's say about software support? You never buy software outright, it's leased and you read and agree to a EULA before you can use it.

user1977

sabeiura said:

I batted this back with a request for a refund 

A refund of what?

Alderbank

A refund for that free phone app?

Rodders53

My Miele is working just fine.  But - other than the washing ready alarm, and the TwinDos levels - it's not really used by us and regarded as a 'gimmick' (but that shows my age) .

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6528001/candy-washing-machine-candy-removed-features-any-consumer-rights is a similar thread... 

You won't do any harm in naming the make of washer!  Likely your Consumer Law Contract is with the Retailer rather than the Manufacturer, though.

Aylesbury_Duck

As Alderbank says, it's time to read the terms and conditions of any manufacturer warranty that came with the machine.  I doubt that loss of IoT functionality arising from a legislative change is grounds for a refund for the machine from the manufacturer, but only you can read the terms and see if that's correct.

As for consumer rights, again, it depends on the precise wording of the machine description from the retailer at the time of purchase.  If the promise was that IoT functionality would be a permanent feature, or guaranteed for 5 years for example, then you have grounds for complaint.  What was the wording around the IoT functionality?

HillStreetBlues

If it was sold with being able to do extra rinses, use more water etc and it can no longer do that then your issue is with the retailer.

powerful_Rogue

Can it be controlled locally via home assistant instead?

MeteredOut

Did you ask which "changes in UK legislation" they were referring to?

DullGreyGuy

The Product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Act probably which came in at the end of April with penalties of up to 4% of global revenue. Some will decide the IOT side is too token to bother with compliance and so shut down services

RefluentBeans

Why would you think the manufacturer has an obligation to you? Unfortunately - the manufacturer has no contract with you* and so you should attempt to get a refund from the retailer who sold it to you. 

* = you may well have a license agreement for the software but I doubt this will say anything about how long they promise to hold a service for. And indeed will likely have a clause saying they can terminate the contract, without notice, for any reason.

I do agree though - the issue with online services is they take constant resources to run. Unfortunately, that cost is pennies per person so would cost more money to ask users to pay for the services to keep them functional. How long should a free service be available to the users for? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? 10? 25? Like this isn’t a hypothetical question - it’s a legitimate question, and I hope the government will help protect consumers in this aspect. We’ve seen it before with the Nintendo online shop being shut down and people not being able to download games they purchased. And with Amazon with their kindle books and accounts getting suspended. Like this is an issue but I don’t think the answer is as simple as some people believe.