CCJ - Issued to an old PO box

subzero1988

Hello KeithP,

I have never been registered with the DVLA at that address though, the only thing I had ever registered to the PO box was my credit cards for any invoices, or sometimes parcels that I didnt want sent to my temporary address, but was not able to receive it at my permanent address.

Do I need to make this more explicit? That the vehicle has only ever been registered at my home address, never my PO box, so it would have been impossible to obtain that information from the DVLA

subzero1988

1505grandad said:

"4. The Claimant had a duty to take reasonable steps to check for the correct address, in accordance with the IPC Code of Practice 22.1 and CPR 6.9."  -  and other references to IPC is not correct  -  claimant (UKPC) is BPA AoS member.

So why is  UK Car Park Management Limited stated in para 8.

Thanks, amended 

subzero1988

Coupon-mad said:

UKPC aren't in the IPC AOS so you need to change that bit to talk about the BPA's equivalent clause (20-something...).

At least one of the 5 examples given in the CCJ section of the NEWBIES thread is probably one about a BPA member and it might already show a WS citing that clause, so you can copy the wording about the BPA CoP. 

But wait a sec, your opening post tells us it's UKPC (a BPA member which is why I said the above) but when reading your WS, you now say it's a claim from UK Car Park Management Limited.

A completely different firm who are in the IPC.

Which one is it?

My mix-up, I've amended now. its UKPC, I thought they were the same as I got the acronyms mixed up.

I'll have a look at the BPA CCJ posts.

Also - thanks everyone for such swift responses!

subzero1988

BPA CODE OF PRACTISE CODE WAS NOT FOLLOWED  

This clearly breaches both Civil Procedural Rule 6.9 which requires them to take reasonable steps to find you before serving the Letter of Claim AND is a flagrant breach of the BPA Code of Practice para 24.1.c:

"24.1c Before serving a Letter Before Claim and prior to the issue of proceedings, Operators must, if no responses have been received to the NTD/NTK/reminder letters, take reasonable endeavours to ensure that the contact details for the person you are writing to are correct."

The above means that UKPC should have taken reasonable steps to ensure that any correspondence was being sent to a residential address. It would have been inexpensive for the Claimaint to check the address that the claim form was due to be sent to, and to have been able to acknowledge that it could not have been a residential address, and that they were issuing Claim forms to a PO box.

How does that look?

Grizebeck

You case should rest on the fact a PO box is not a suitable address for service 

https://www.civillitigationbrief.com/2020/10/07/address-for-service-the-use-of-a-post-office-box-number-or-accomodation-address-does-not-comply-with-the-rules-also-the-price-tag-for-litigants-in-person/

KeithP

In para 18 you say...

18. The system, called 'KADOE' (Keeper On Date of Event), is a brief 'snapshot in time' address to enable a parking firm to send a Notice to the registered keeper. As every car that I have owned since I purchased my current property, where I reside, on 29/01/2024, has only been registered to my current address at (XXXX), if the Claimant had issued the claim to my address using the DVLA, then they would have issued it to my current address, and I would have received the correspondence regarding this claim.

Yet the PoC that you have shown us in para 31 states...

THE PCN(S) WERE ISSUED ON 06/01/2024

You also mention KADOE in para 18. KADOE allows a parking operator just one request for keeper details from the DVLA. If they made the request for keeper details from the DVLA in that short window between the parking event and you notifying the DVLA of your change of address, then that explains why they picked up the PO Box address and why early correspondence went to the wrong place.

I note that there is a full three weeks between the date of the alleged parking incident and you moving home.

subzero1988

KeithP said:

In para 18 you say...

18. The system, called 'KADOE' (Keeper On Date of Event), is a brief 'snapshot in time' address to enable a parking firm to send a Notice to the registered keeper. As every car that I have owned since I purchased my current property, where I reside, on 29/01/2024, has only been registered to my current address at (XXXX), if the Claimant had issued the claim to my address using the DVLA, then they would have issued it to my current address, and I would have received the correspondence regarding this claim.

Yet the PoC that you have shown us in para 31 states...

THE PCN(S) WERE ISSUED ON 06/01/2024

You also mention KADOE in para 18. KADOE allows a parking operator just one request for keeper details from the DVLA. If they made the request for keeper details from the DVLA in that short window between the parking event and you notifying the DVLA of your change of address, then that explains why they picked up the PO Box address and why early correspondence went to the wrong place.

I note that there is a full three weeks between the date of the alleged parking incident and you moving home.

I'm really sorry if I'm missing something but I don't understand what you mean about three weeks between the alleged parking incident and me moving home

The last time I was working away from home was mid-2023 - they gave me the PCN in Jan 2024. I have never been temporarily away from home since June 2023, over a year ago.

The only way they could have had this address is from a credit report where at one point, the PO box would have been an "associated" address (TransUnion), and would never have been my primary address - it was only ever updated automatically when I would update my address with a credit card company temporarily so i could receive anything important from them,

subzero1988

Grizebeck said:

You case should rest on the fact a PO box is not a suitable address for service 

https://www.civillitigationbrief.com/2020/10/07/address-for-service-the-use-of-a-post-office-box-number-or-accomodation-address-does-not-comply-with-the-rules-also-the-price-tag-for-litigants-in-person/

Thanks for this, this is great

KeithP

subzero1988 said:

KeithP said:

In para 18 you say...

18. The system, called 'KADOE' (Keeper On Date of Event), is a brief 'snapshot in time' address to enable a parking firm to send a Notice to the registered keeper. As every car that I have owned since I purchased my current property, where I reside, on 29/01/2024, has only been registered to my current address at (XXXX), if the Claimant had issued the claim to my address using the DVLA, then they would have issued it to my current address, and I would have received the correspondence regarding this claim.

Yet the PoC that you have shown us in para 31 states...

THE PCN(S) WERE ISSUED ON 06/01/2024

You also mention KADOE in para 18. KADOE allows a parking operator just one request for keeper details from the DVLA. If they made the request for keeper details from the DVLA in that short window between the parking event and you notifying the DVLA of your change of address, then that explains why they picked up the PO Box address and why early correspondence went to the wrong place.

I note that there is a full three weeks between the date of the alleged parking incident and you moving home.

I'm really sorry if I'm missing something but I don't understand what you mean about three weeks between the alleged parking incident and me moving home

The last time I was working away from home was mid-2023 - they gave me the PCN in Jan 2024. I have never been temporarily away from home since June 2023, over a year ago.

The only way they could have had this address is from a credit report where at one point, the PO box would have been an "associated" address (TransUnion), and would never have been my primary address - it was only ever updated automatically when I would update my address with a credit card company temporarily so i could receive anything important from them,

The Particulars of Claim that you spell out in para 32 of your proposed Witness Statement states... 

2. THE PCN(S) WERE ISSUED ON 06/01/2024

Para 18 of your Defence includes...

...every car that I have owned since I purchased my current property, where I reside, on 29/01/2024, has only been registered to my current address...

You have told us that you purchased your current property on 29th January 2024. That is a full three weeks after the alleged parking event. Now, you may be the exception, but most people do not update their logbook until they move so if you follow that pattern, it seems likely that the DVLA still had your old address on file for all of those three weeks.

It follows therefore, if a parking company asked the DVLA for the keeper's details within those three weeks - which they definitely needed to do if they wanted to hold the keeper liable - they would've been given your old PO Box address.

LDast

I am undertake impression that the OP never had the vehicle registered to the PO Box. The PO Box address didn't come from the DVLA.