Barclays Bank - 1964 Final Salary Pension Scheme - Help!

The_Realist

Hi.  I'm after some advice on behalf of my Mother who is getting nowhere with WTW.

Background
Worked 1980-1986 (5 years 11 months)
Final Salary £10,000
Father was also in the same scheme.  Divorce in 2005 and part of his scheme (and according to the paperwork, his scheme only) was transferred to my Mother who invested this element into her own SIPP.  The amount invested in the SIPP is in line with what my Father recalls (paperwork all shredded in the last few years)
WTW claim nothing relating to my Mothers time at Barclays remains but can't seem to give any breakdown of the amount that left split between Mothers work pension, and divorce settlement.  Is it possible they combined this and she unwittingly signed something?  I'm thinking no, but it's getting difficult to prove this at all.

Calculations
Can anyone:

1. Calculate an approx. TV at 2005 of my Mothers Pension (age 41)
2. Calculate what my Mothers Final Salary Pension should be, had it not been transferred, based on the above if it started now (aged 60)

I'd be grateful of any help on the above.

Thanks

xylophone

Your mother left the scheme in 1986.

Does she have a statement of deferred benefits on leaving the scheme showing 

GMP

Excess?

Was this the only contracted out scheme of which your mother was ever a member?

If so, what is the COPE shown on her State Pension Forecast?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

See

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80787087/#Comment_80787087

Try SAR to HMRC and WTW

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/getting-copies-of-your-information-subject-access-request/

In the end, after exhausting all avenues try Pensions Ombudsman?

The_Realist

Thanks for your response and I will pass on these links.  To note:

Unfortunately no paperwork showing GMP or Excess.
I believe it's the only contracted scheme she was a member of

Marcon

The_Realist said:

Hi.  I'm after some advice on behalf of my Mother who is getting nowhere with WTW.

Background
Worked 1980-1986 (5 years 11 months)
Final Salary £10,000
Father was also in the same scheme.  Divorce in 2005 and part of his scheme (and according to the paperwork, his scheme only) was transferred to my Mother who invested this element into her own SIPP.  The amount invested in the SIPP is in line with what my Father recalls (paperwork all shredded in the last few years)
WTW claim nothing relating to my Mothers time at Barclays remains but can't seem to give any breakdown of the amount that left split between Mothers work pension, and divorce settlement.  Is it possible they combined this and she unwittingly signed something?  I'm thinking no, but it's getting difficult to prove this at all.

Calculations
Can anyone:

1. Calculate an approx. TV at 2005 of my Mothers Pension (age 41)
2. Calculate what my Mothers Final Salary Pension should be, had it not been transferred, based on the above if it started now (aged 60)

I'd be grateful of any help on the above.

Thanks

If your mother was 41 in 2005, then she would have been 16 at the time she joined Barclays. That was too young to join their pension scheme. If she was only there until 1986, she wouldn't have had a long enough period of pension scheme membership to gain the right to a 'deferred' pension and would have had a refund of any personal contributions at the time she left.

As you have said in your post, she was awarded a 'pension credit' in respect of her (now ex) husband's scheme and transferred this to her SIPP.

WTW have no record of a Barclays pension for her because she doesn't have one in her own right (wasn't in the scheme long enough) and didn't keep a pension credit in the scheme in respect of her divorce settlement. 

The_Realist

Marcon said:

The_Realist said:

Hi.  I'm after some advice on behalf of my Mother who is getting nowhere with WTW.

Background
Worked 1980-1986 (5 years 11 months)
Final Salary £10,000
Father was also in the same scheme.  Divorce in 2005 and part of his scheme (and according to the paperwork, his scheme only) was transferred to my Mother who invested this element into her own SIPP.  The amount invested in the SIPP is in line with what my Father recalls (paperwork all shredded in the last few years)
WTW claim nothing relating to my Mothers time at Barclays remains but can't seem to give any breakdown of the amount that left split between Mothers work pension, and divorce settlement.  Is it possible they combined this and she unwittingly signed something?  I'm thinking no, but it's getting difficult to prove this at all.

Calculations
Can anyone:

1. Calculate an approx. TV at 2005 of my Mothers Pension (age 41)
2. Calculate what my Mothers Final Salary Pension should be, had it not been transferred, based on the above if it started now (aged 60)

I'd be grateful of any help on the above.

Thanks

If your mother was 41 in 2005, then she would have been 16 at the time she joined Barclays. That was too young to join their pension scheme. If she was only there until 1986, she wouldn't have had a long enough period of pension scheme membership to gain the right to a 'deferred' pension and would have had a refund of any personal contributions at the time she left.

As you have said in your post, she was awarded a 'pension credit' in respect of her (now ex) husband's scheme and transferred this to her SIPP.

WTW have no record of a Barclays pension for her because she doesn't have one in her own right (wasn't in the scheme long enough) and didn't keep a pension credit in the scheme in respect of her divorce settlement. 

Thanks, that's very helpful.  Just checking and she had just turned 17 when hse joined, but I suspect it was age 18 when she was eligible?  

Marcon

The_Realist said:

Marcon said:

The_Realist said:

Hi.  I'm after some advice on behalf of my Mother who is getting nowhere with WTW.

Background
Worked 1980-1986 (5 years 11 months)
Final Salary £10,000
Father was also in the same scheme.  Divorce in 2005 and part of his scheme (and according to the paperwork, his scheme only) was transferred to my Mother who invested this element into her own SIPP.  The amount invested in the SIPP is in line with what my Father recalls (paperwork all shredded in the last few years)
WTW claim nothing relating to my Mothers time at Barclays remains but can't seem to give any breakdown of the amount that left split between Mothers work pension, and divorce settlement.  Is it possible they combined this and she unwittingly signed something?  I'm thinking no, but it's getting difficult to prove this at all.

Calculations
Can anyone:

1. Calculate an approx. TV at 2005 of my Mothers Pension (age 41)
2. Calculate what my Mothers Final Salary Pension should be, had it not been transferred, based on the above if it started now (aged 60)

I'd be grateful of any help on the above.

Thanks

If your mother was 41 in 2005, then she would have been 16 at the time she joined Barclays. That was too young to join their pension scheme. If she was only there until 1986, she wouldn't have had a long enough period of pension scheme membership to gain the right to a 'deferred' pension and would have had a refund of any personal contributions at the time she left.

As you have said in your post, she was awarded a 'pension credit' in respect of her (now ex) husband's scheme and transferred this to her SIPP.

WTW have no record of a Barclays pension for her because she doesn't have one in her own right (wasn't in the scheme long enough) and didn't keep a pension credit in the scheme in respect of her divorce settlement. 

Thanks, that's very helpful.  Just checking and she had just turned 17 when hse joined, but I suspect it was age 18 when she was eligible?  

It would have been a minimum age of 18  and possibly older - either way, she wouldn't have managed to get in the five years of scheme membership she needed for a deferred pension. 

xylophone

It is quite possible that 18 was the earliest age to qualify to enter the scheme (although there were bank schemes which only offered a

much later age - I had a relation who worked for Natwest where (as I recollect), the age of scheme entry was 25/6).

As Marcon says ( and see https://www.barnett-waddingham.co.uk/comment-insight/blog/revaluation-for-early-leavers/), on the statutory

basis she would not have been entitled to a deferred pension, but it is just worth checking the specific scheme rules which can often

be more generous that the statutory basis.

She can check her State Pension Forecast (worthwhile in any event) and do the SAR with HMRC/WTW.

The_Realist

Is there anyone I can find the scheme rules; does anyone who was a member of this scheme have a copy

Marcon

The_Realist said:

Is there anyone I can find the scheme rules; does anyone who was a member of this scheme have a copy

The administrators (WTW) will have them. There are two questions to ask:

• minimum age and any minimum service requirement before a woman could join; and
• the vesting period (ie how long did someone have to be a member of the scheme to acquire the right to a 'deferred' benefit).

Social_Observer

I joined Barclays in April 1985 when I was still 16 and left in Feb 1990 but am a deferred member of the Barclays Bank - 1964 Final Salary Pension Scheme.

Silvertabby

Social_Observer said:

I joined Barclays in April 1985 when I was still 16 and left in Feb 1990 but am a deferred member of the Barclays Bank - 1964 Final Salary Pension Scheme.

But did you join the pension scheme at 16 or did you have to wait until you were 18?

The vesting period is likely to have reduced from 5 to 2 years in 1988, thus giving you 3 years deferred benefits.