Barclays Bank - 1964 Final Salary Pension Scheme - Help!

Marcon

ossie48 said:

Marcon said:

The_Realist said:

Hi.  I'm after some advice on behalf of my Mother who is getting nowhere with WTW.

Background
Worked 1980-1986 (5 years 11 months)
Final Salary £10,000
Father was also in the same scheme.  Divorce in 2005 and part of his scheme (and according to the paperwork, his scheme only) was transferred to my Mother who invested this element into her own SIPP.  The amount invested in the SIPP is in line with what my Father recalls (paperwork all shredded in the last few years)
WTW claim nothing relating to my Mothers time at Barclays remains but can't seem to give any breakdown of the amount that left split between Mothers work pension, and divorce settlement.  Is it possible they combined this and she unwittingly signed something?  I'm thinking no, but it's getting difficult to prove this at all.

Calculations
Can anyone:

1. Calculate an approx. TV at 2005 of my Mothers Pension (age 41)
2. Calculate what my Mothers Final Salary Pension should be, had it not been transferred, based on the above if it started now (aged 60)

I'd be grateful of any help on the above.

Thanks

If your mother was 41 in 2005, then she would have been 16 at the time she joined Barclays. That was too young to join their pension scheme. If she was only there until 1986, she wouldn't have had a long enough period of pension scheme membership to gain the right to a 'deferred' pension and would have had a refund of any personal contributions at the time she left.

As you have said in your post, she was awarded a 'pension credit' in respect of her (now ex) husband's scheme and transferred this to her SIPP.

WTW have no record of a Barclays pension for her because she doesn't have one in her own right (wasn't in the scheme long enough) and didn't keep a pension credit in the scheme in respect of her divorce settlement. 

There may be an issue with your advice(highlighted in bold) unless I'm missing something. The reason I ask is that  I joined Barclays aged 16 in 1981. I left in 1987 with 5 years 9 months pensionable service so I started paying into the pension scheme aged 16. I have the papers in front of me (just double checking) because I transferred the pension out in 2020 via an IFA for £111,000. 

Also note the post two above who also started paying in at 16. 

I'm not sure if the OP's gone but it's worth noting, I had roughly the same service, roughly the same dates, same scheme.

If I missed something I apologise. 

Many thanks for your post. Are you by any chance male...? 

Silvertabby

Marcon said:

ossie48 said:

Marcon said:

The_Realist said:

Hi.  I'm after some advice on behalf of my Mother who is getting nowhere with WTW.

Background
Worked 1980-1986 (5 years 11 months)
Final Salary £10,000
Father was also in the same scheme.  Divorce in 2005 and part of his scheme (and according to the paperwork, his scheme only) was transferred to my Mother who invested this element into her own SIPP.  The amount invested in the SIPP is in line with what my Father recalls (paperwork all shredded in the last few years)
WTW claim nothing relating to my Mothers time at Barclays remains but can't seem to give any breakdown of the amount that left split between Mothers work pension, and divorce settlement.  Is it possible they combined this and she unwittingly signed something?  I'm thinking no, but it's getting difficult to prove this at all.

Calculations
Can anyone:

1. Calculate an approx. TV at 2005 of my Mothers Pension (age 41)
2. Calculate what my Mothers Final Salary Pension should be, had it not been transferred, based on the above if it started now (aged 60)

I'd be grateful of any help on the above.

Thanks

If your mother was 41 in 2005, then she would have been 16 at the time she joined Barclays. That was too young to join their pension scheme. If she was only there until 1986, she wouldn't have had a long enough period of pension scheme membership to gain the right to a 'deferred' pension and would have had a refund of any personal contributions at the time she left.

As you have said in your post, she was awarded a 'pension credit' in respect of her (now ex) husband's scheme and transferred this to her SIPP.

WTW have no record of a Barclays pension for her because she doesn't have one in her own right (wasn't in the scheme long enough) and didn't keep a pension credit in the scheme in respect of her divorce settlement. 

There may be an issue with your advice(highlighted in bold) unless I'm missing something. The reason I ask is that  I joined Barclays aged 16 in 1981. I left in 1987 with 5 years 9 months pensionable service so I started paying into the pension scheme aged 16. I have the papers in front of me (just double checking) because I transferred the pension out in 2020 via an IFA for £111,000. 

Also note the post two above who also started paying in at 16. 

I'm not sure if the OP's gone but it's worth noting, I had roughly the same service, roughly the same dates, same scheme.

If I missed something I apologise. 

Many thanks for your post. Are you by any chance male...? 

A (female) friend also left Barclay's in the mid 1980s, on pregnancy.  She received a fairly substantial lump sum, which she was led to believe was her Barclay's maternity grant.  But many years later she discovered that it had actually been a refund of her pension contributions (yes, she knows that she should have read all the paperwork instead of just seeing £ signs and signing the claim form!).  The explanation she was given was that back then women who left work to start their families didn't return, so the money to buy a pram etc would have been more beneficial to them than any small pension rights.

Similar thing happened to a family member, although she knew that she was taking just under 5 years of her NHS pension contributions.  She also knew that as soon as her little ones started school, she would return to the NHS as a midwife, and re-join the pension scheme - but the offer of several hundreds of pounds was just too tempting.  She eventually retired at 65 as a senior manager, and still cringes at the thought of the loss of 5 years pensionable service based on her leaving salary.  

glitzy

Marcon said:

glitzy said:

Hi, I am not sure if this helps but I joined Barclays when I was 16 in 1979. & left in 1986. I have just looked at my paperwork & it says Pensionable Service- 81 months (6 years 9 months), so I received a pension the whole time I was there. 

I have a question of my own, I didn’t take my Barclays pension when I turned 60 last year thinking that all the time I don’t take it that it would increase ie £3,600 a year, so instead of £80,000 lifetime, it would increase to £105,000 divided so would be £4,700 a year roughly. Does anyone know if that’s what happens with a Barclays Pension. They are re-calculating a new quote but I was wondering if anyone else had done the same.

Not sure where you are getting these 'lifetime' figures from, but that certainly isn't how a final salary scheme works.

If you didn't take your pension at the scheme's normal retirement age (?was it 60 for you?), then it may or may not increase from then until the time you take it, depending on the rules of the scheme. 

Probably best to wait for the quote the scheme is going to provide.

Hiya, so I have received my quote & since phoned WTW, as didn’t understand because my full pension didn’t change but cash & reduced pension did - here are my figures:

Option 1 - Cash & reduced pension
tax free £19,627.41
reduced pension £3,544.46 a year

Option 2 - Full Pension £3,693.25 a year

So it’s seems a no brainer now, whereas September 2022 figures were exactly the same as above apart from reduced pension was £2944.11.

They did also say I would get last years that I haven’t claimed which I had read somewhere. Still don’t know why full pension didn’t change & who I spoke to was just admin person who didn’t really explain. I thought it was a copy & paste error but they looked at my record & said that it was all okay.

Do you know why the full pension hasn’t changed ?

glitzy

ossie48 said:

Marcon said:

The_Realist said:

Hi.  I'm after some advice on behalf of my Mother who is getting nowhere with WTW.

Background
Worked 1980-1986 (5 years 11 months)
Final Salary £10,000
Father was also in the same scheme.  Divorce in 2005 and part of his scheme (and according to the paperwork, his scheme only) was transferred to my Mother who invested this element into her own SIPP.  The amount invested in the SIPP is in line with what my Father recalls (paperwork all shredded in the last few years)
WTW claim nothing relating to my Mothers time at Barclays remains but can't seem to give any breakdown of the amount that left split between Mothers work pension, and divorce settlement.  Is it possible they combined this and she unwittingly signed something?  I'm thinking no, but it's getting difficult to prove this at all.

Calculations
Can anyone:

1. Calculate an approx. TV at 2005 of my Mothers Pension (age 41)
2. Calculate what my Mothers Final Salary Pension should be, had it not been transferred, based on the above if it started now (aged 60)

I'd be grateful of any help on the above.

Thanks

If your mother was 41 in 2005, then she would have been 16 at the time she joined Barclays. That was too young to join their pension scheme. If she was only there until 1986, she wouldn't have had a long enough period of pension scheme membership to gain the right to a 'deferred' pension and would have had a refund of any personal contributions at the time she left.

As you have said in your post, she was awarded a 'pension credit' in respect of her (now ex) husband's scheme and transferred this to her SIPP.

WTW have no record of a Barclays pension for her because she doesn't have one in her own right (wasn't in the scheme long enough) and didn't keep a pension credit in the scheme in respect of her divorce settlement. 

There may be an issue with your advice(highlighted in bold) unless I'm missing something. The reason I ask is that  I joined Barclays aged 16 in 1981. I left in 1987 with 5 years 9 months pensionable service so I started paying into the pension scheme aged 16. I have the papers in front of me (just double checking) because I transferred the pension out in 2020 via an IFA for £111,000. 

Also note the post two above who also started paying in at 16. 

I'm not sure if the OP's gone but it's worth noting, I had roughly the same service, roughly the same dates, same scheme.

If I missed something I apologise. 

You did well to cash out when you did, as I saw mine was £111,000 in 2020 but I thought I would leave it so it would increase nicely but it’s now £80,601.08😢, didn’t realise it could drop as it’s a cash pension but the admin staff couldn’t explain it or I wasn’t understanding what they were saying 🤦‍♀️

FIREDreamer

glitzy said:

Marcon said:

glitzy said:

Hi, I am not sure if this helps but I joined Barclays when I was 16 in 1979. & left in 1986. I have just looked at my paperwork & it says Pensionable Service- 81 months (6 years 9 months), so I received a pension the whole time I was there. 

I have a question of my own, I didn’t take my Barclays pension when I turned 60 last year thinking that all the time I don’t take it that it would increase ie £3,600 a year, so instead of £80,000 lifetime, it would increase to £105,000 divided so would be £4,700 a year roughly. Does anyone know if that’s what happens with a Barclays Pension. They are re-calculating a new quote but I was wondering if anyone else had done the same.

Not sure where you are getting these 'lifetime' figures from, but that certainly isn't how a final salary scheme works.

If you didn't take your pension at the scheme's normal retirement age (?was it 60 for you?), then it may or may not increase from then until the time you take it, depending on the rules of the scheme. 

Probably best to wait for the quote the scheme is going to provide.

Hiya, so I have received my quote & since phoned WTW, as didn’t understand because my full pension didn’t change but cash & reduced pension did - here are my figures:

Option 1 - Cash & reduced pension
tax free £19,627.41
reduced pension £3,544.46 a year

Option 2 - Full Pension £3,693.25 a year

So it’s seems a no brainer now, whereas September 2022 figures were exactly the same as above apart from reduced pension was £2944.11.

They did also say I would get last years that I haven’t claimed which I had read somewhere. Still don’t know why full pension didn’t change & who I spoke to was just admin person who didn’t really explain. I thought it was a copy & paste error but they looked at my record & said that it was all okay.

Do you know why the full pension hasn’t changed ?

Well i would certainly take the tax free cash here! Give up £150 a year for nearly £20k. Seems overly generous tax free cash there.

Silvertabby

FIREDreamer said:

glitzy said:

Marcon said:

glitzy said:

Hi, I am not sure if this helps but I joined Barclays when I was 16 in 1979. & left in 1986. I have just looked at my paperwork & it says Pensionable Service- 81 months (6 years 9 months), so I received a pension the whole time I was there. 

I have a question of my own, I didn’t take my Barclays pension when I turned 60 last year thinking that all the time I don’t take it that it would increase ie £3,600 a year, so instead of £80,000 lifetime, it would increase to £105,000 divided so would be £4,700 a year roughly. Does anyone know if that’s what happens with a Barclays Pension. They are re-calculating a new quote but I was wondering if anyone else had done the same.

Not sure where you are getting these 'lifetime' figures from, but that certainly isn't how a final salary scheme works.

If you didn't take your pension at the scheme's normal retirement age (?was it 60 for you?), then it may or may not increase from then until the time you take it, depending on the rules of the scheme. 

Probably best to wait for the quote the scheme is going to provide.

Hiya, so I have received my quote & since phoned WTW, as didn’t understand because my full pension didn’t change but cash & reduced pension did - here are my figures:

Option 1 - Cash & reduced pension
tax free £19,627.41
reduced pension £3,544.46 a year

Option 2 - Full Pension £3,693.25 a year

So it’s seems a no brainer now, whereas September 2022 figures were exactly the same as above apart from reduced pension was £2944.11.

They did also say I would get last years that I haven’t claimed which I had read somewhere. Still don’t know why full pension didn’t change & who I spoke to was just admin person who didn’t really explain. I thought it was a copy & paste error but they looked at my record & said that it was all okay.

Do you know why the full pension hasn’t changed ?

Well i would certainly take the tax free cash here! Give up £150 a year for nearly £20k. Seems overly generous tax free cash there.

That's not just an incredibly generous commutation rate - it's an unbelievably generous commutation rate.

Glitzy - have you got that in writing?  And, even if you have, I would still double check it with a senior pensions administrator before making any financial decisions!  

xylophone

Old quote - commutation factor approx 1:26 which is quite credible, (even generous when you consider that we have seen CF as low as 1:10.5 and eg LGPS offers only 1:12).


New quote - commutation factor  approx 1:131....... I'd be contacting WTW again to check.....



See https://techzone.abrdn.com/public/pensions/Tech-guide-tax-free-cash#:~:text=The tax-free cash must,(3 + 20/CF)

glitzy

Silvertabby said:

FIREDreamer said:

glitzy said:

Marcon said:

glitzy said:

Hi, I am not sure if this helps but I joined Barclays when I was 16 in 1979. & left in 1986. I have just looked at my paperwork & it says Pensionable Service- 81 months (6 years 9 months), so I received a pension the whole time I was there. 

I have a question of my own, I didn’t take my Barclays pension when I turned 60 last year thinking that all the time I don’t take it that it would increase ie £3,600 a year, so instead of £80,000 lifetime, it would increase to £105,000 divided so would be £4,700 a year roughly. Does anyone know if that’s what happens with a Barclays Pension. They are re-calculating a new quote but I was wondering if anyone else had done the same.

Not sure where you are getting these 'lifetime' figures from, but that certainly isn't how a final salary scheme works.

If you didn't take your pension at the scheme's normal retirement age (?was it 60 for you?), then it may or may not increase from then until the time you take it, depending on the rules of the scheme. 

Probably best to wait for the quote the scheme is going to provide.

Hiya, so I have received my quote & since phoned WTW, as didn’t understand because my full pension didn’t change but cash & reduced pension did - here are my figures:

Option 1 - Cash & reduced pension
tax free £19,627.41
reduced pension £3,544.46 a year

Option 2 - Full Pension £3,693.25 a year

So it’s seems a no brainer now, whereas September 2022 figures were exactly the same as above apart from reduced pension was £2944.11.

They did also say I would get last years that I haven’t claimed which I had read somewhere. Still don’t know why full pension didn’t change & who I spoke to was just admin person who didn’t really explain. I thought it was a copy & paste error but they looked at my record & said that it was all okay.

Do you know why the full pension hasn’t changed ?

Well i would certainly take the tax free cash here! Give up £150 a year for nearly £20k. Seems overly generous tax free cash there.

That's not just an incredibly generous commutation rate - it's an unbelievably generous commutation rate.

Glitzy - have you got that in writing?  And, even if you have, I would still double check it with a senior pensions administrator before making any financial decisions!  

I do have it in writing but yes I am going double check with a senior pensions administrator 👍🏻

Silvertabby

glitzy said:

Silvertabby said:

FIREDreamer said:

glitzy said:

Marcon said:

glitzy said:

Hi, I am not sure if this helps but I joined Barclays when I was 16 in 1979. & left in 1986. I have just looked at my paperwork & it says Pensionable Service- 81 months (6 years 9 months), so I received a pension the whole time I was there. 

I have a question of my own, I didn’t take my Barclays pension when I turned 60 last year thinking that all the time I don’t take it that it would increase ie £3,600 a year, so instead of £80,000 lifetime, it would increase to £105,000 divided so would be £4,700 a year roughly. Does anyone know if that’s what happens with a Barclays Pension. They are re-calculating a new quote but I was wondering if anyone else had done the same.

Not sure where you are getting these 'lifetime' figures from, but that certainly isn't how a final salary scheme works.

If you didn't take your pension at the scheme's normal retirement age (?was it 60 for you?), then it may or may not increase from then until the time you take it, depending on the rules of the scheme. 

Probably best to wait for the quote the scheme is going to provide.

Hiya, so I have received my quote & since phoned WTW, as didn’t understand because my full pension didn’t change but cash & reduced pension did - here are my figures:

Option 1 - Cash & reduced pension
tax free £19,627.41
reduced pension £3,544.46 a year

Option 2 - Full Pension £3,693.25 a year

So it’s seems a no brainer now, whereas September 2022 figures were exactly the same as above apart from reduced pension was £2944.11.

They did also say I would get last years that I haven’t claimed which I had read somewhere. Still don’t know why full pension didn’t change & who I spoke to was just admin person who didn’t really explain. I thought it was a copy & paste error but they looked at my record & said that it was all okay.

Do you know why the full pension hasn’t changed ?

Well i would certainly take the tax free cash here! Give up £150 a year for nearly £20k. Seems overly generous tax free cash there.

That's not just an incredibly generous commutation rate - it's an unbelievably generous commutation rate.

Glitzy - have you got that in writing?  And, even if you have, I would still double check it with a senior pensions administrator before making any financial decisions!  

I do have it in writing but yes I am going double check with a senior pensions administrator 👍🏻

Sorry, but that level of commutation factor just can't be right.  Best to find out now before you start making plans for the money. 

glitzy

xylophone said:

Old quote - commutation factor approx 1:26 which is quite credible, (even generous when you consider that we have seen CF as low as 1:10.5 and eg LGPS offers only 1:12).


New quote - commutation factor  approx 1:131....... I'd be contacting WTW again to check.....



See https://techzone.abrdn.com/public/pensions/Tech-guide-tax-free-cash#:~:text=The tax-free cash must,(3 + 20/CF)

Thank You for the link, sorry not understanding commutation factor, what should I ask WTW please.