UKPC Appeal follow up letter

Basketcase1985

Hi friendly helpers

With the help of this forum and others, I appealed a UKPC parking charge. 

Summary details as follows:
-Driver stayed 22mins over the 3hr permitted time at a retail park. 

-Driver was a genuine customer in the retail park and has proof of purchase for at least 2 hours session attending a venue in the retail park.

-Driver made complaint to the manager of the venue attended who advised they do not have any input to be able to cancel charges with UKPC.

-Driver already supplied this proof of purchase together with appeal letter to UKPC.

-UKPC response to me as registered keeper, is requesting details of the driver, proof of purchase of services or goods bought at retail park, and their general garb about the other points I included in the appeal.

My queries/assistance required:

1. Presumably I still do not provide details of driver/ignore their request for this in my reaponse? 

2. Do I just send the same proof of purchase again that I sent them originally with my appeal? That was a confirmation email from a soft play attended stating location, day and time falling within the parking time frame at the retail park. Did they just ignore/not see it, or are they expecting further evidence like bank statement (redacted info except for payment)

3. The cost for me to take off work to to attend any POPLA hearing, even though I'm sure I'd win if that were the case, would be more than the cost of charge . What is the likelihood of it proceeding to this as would otherwise just pay the reduced charge as less costly to me than alternative. 

Attachments:
a) Parking charge letter
b) My cover email with additional appeal info made via their website. 
c) My appeal letter
d) UKPC response to appeal

Many thanks for any kind assistance. 
Basketcase

KeithP

Ignore that and wait patiently for your appeal rejection and a PoPLA code.

There will be no 'hearing' for a PoPLA appeal. It's just more paperwork - as described in the third post of the NEWBIES thread.

Gr1pr

1) depends on if the driver was revealed or not, but totally reliant on the following question, which I don't think you expanded on

Was the NTK PCN letter fully compliant with POFA 2012 ?  Or not. ?  Yes. ( Or NO  ) is the answer. No dithering !

POFA doesn't help a driver, but helps a compliant parking company transfer liability from the driver to the keeper 

If the driver was revealed, POFA goes into the nearest bin and they can pursue the driver 

2) its a retail park, so the shops are tenants, they don't have a contract with UKPC, so plan A is where your complaint with proof of patronage should be going, usually to the retail park management team who manage the site and who contracted with the parking company, on behalf of the landowner.  The landowner may intervene if you involve them

Having proof of patronage doesn't always help when targeting retailers who are tenants, it certainly didn't help Barry Beavis a decade ago 

So complain about this PCN to those who can do something about it, the retail park management company ( or landowner, or both. )

3) Popla is a paperwork based ADR, there is no in person hearing 

Coupon-mad

Just get the site agents to cancel it.

No trying POPLA.

No paying.

Basketcase1985

Thanks for comments so far. 

I've read the faqs, but there is ALOT to take in and being dyslexic it's not the easiest for me to work through and take in. Hence some knowledge but not fully versed in all the points.

To address some of the points raised above:

Driver has not been revealed to UKPC, hence the question whether I need to respond to UKPC with that info. 

Driver tried complaining to the manager of the soft play in the retail who wasn't able to help. Not sure who the entire site agent/management is or how to find them. Presume I need to return to the retail park to locate details (would they care to help?)

I belive the NTK was issued in compliance with Pofa 2012.

Thanks again. 

LDast

Is there a plinth or something with all the names of the shops/businesses at the location. Usually at the bottom of those plinths are details of the managing agent.

You don't need to respond to the email requesting driver details but FYI, the NtK is PoFA compliant so the keeper will be liable if the drivers identity is not provided. Won't make much of a difference here unless the keeper wasn't actually the driver.

At the end of the day, it's a UKPC PCN. It will go all the way to a court claim which you will defend using the template defence and it will, eventually, be discontinued.

Gr1pr

Basketcase1985 said:

Thanks for comments so far. 

I've read the faqs, but there is ALOT to take in and being dyslexic it's not the easiest for me to work through and take in. Hence some knowledge but not fully versed in all the points.

To address some of the points raised above:

Driver has not been revealed to UKPC, hence the question whether I need to respond to UKPC with that info. 

Driver tried complaining to the manager of the soft play in the retail who wasn't able to help. Not sure who the entire site agent/management is or how to find them. Presume I need to return to the retail park to locate details (would they care to help?)

I belive the NTK was issued in compliance with Pofa 2012.

Thanks again. 

Your choice, if the NTK PCN letter complied with POFA, but doesn't make any difference if the keeper and driver were the same person .  You could choose not to, then wait it out, awaiting a rejection with Popla code, or cancellation, which is probably the better option here 

You will never know if you don't go and look and ask, but its in your interests to find out and to aim your complaints to the correct entity, Plus read this advice below too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6337652/how-to-find-details-of-landowner

Plan A is Always the best remedy, providing you do some digging and complain to the correct party. ( Not the tenants. ) Your parking contract ( not your purchases contract. ) was with the parking company contracted by the retail park management company, so talk to the organ grinder, not the monkey  (you don't have a parking contract with the retailer)

Basketcase1985

Thanks again all.

I will see what I can do to get site agent info. I've googled without any luck so far, and I don't really live near the retail park to be able to return any time soon.

LDast comment re it being UKPC that it will go all the way to court is what concerns me, even with a pretty much guaranteed win. Spending so much time and effort fighting, appealing, writing letters even with help of templates and everyone here is almost not worth the lost time with family and work which will cost me more. Even staying up to 1am on this, I'm now losing sleep on it too. 

Hoping I will be able to locate landowner details and have them cancel, or UKPC accept the proof of customer info I send again, otherwise I think that's as far as I will be able to take it.

Will keep you posted. 

Gr1pr

LDast didn't say it will go all the way to court, many don't get that far 

Ldast said it would travel as far as a court CLAIM , totally different,  they then went on to say that it would likely be discontinued, so read it again, slowly, with fresh eyes this time 

Name the retail park and location, have you tried a thorough Google search. ?  Including Google Street View. ?

It seems to be Colindale Retail Park, Car park 2 , NW9 6TH.  ?

This thread was the same retail park, with B & M , did you read it and message that victim on here for the contact details of the site itself yet. ?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6531067/need-advise-on-ticket-and-cant-find-answers/p1

Read this one too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6408591/retail-park-parking-charge-notice-uk-parking-control

Perhaps try Morgan Williams because they maybe the managing agent, or know who is with contact details. ?

In GSV , there is a sign by the managing agent Cushman and Wakefield stating when the gates will be locked, the sign is next to the UKPC sign, so try Cushman and Wakefield too

Basketcase1985

Thank you G1pr.

It is the Colindale retail park which you have detailed in your post.

I have now written to the victim of the first thread you referred to. 

The second thread relates to a different retail park, though their suggestion is to try the other stores in the retail park even if I do not have proof of shopping in their store. 

As mentioned, I do not live nearby the retail park so am unable to return there to check the details of landowner from any signage. 

Thank you for listing possible managing agents. I've tried several Google searches without luck (granted at 1am with tired eyes), though I will try find contact details of the agents you mentioned above and write to them. 

Gr1pr

I expect that you mean phone followed up by email, not snail mail. ?

If you Google the Cushman name, it shows an office near Manchester, so try that one seeing as the GSV streetview gave those details