Changing to smart meters, just a heads up

mmmmikey

pseudodox said:

I keep seeing people saying their smart gas meter does not work because it is too far from the electric meter.  Can anyone give examples of how far apart they are because that is one aspect of having SMs myself that I think could be an issue, as the meters are diagonally opposite across a large garage.  And I am in a mobile phone signal iffy blackspot ("now it works, now it doesn't" scenario) & the garage is the lowest part of a townhouse built into a hillside.  The only part of the garage that a signal might transmit through is the front access metal roller door And the chances of an IHD toy working are probably zilch unless it sits next to the meter, which would hardly fulfill the "see at a glance" usage output.

Really do not understand why meters have generally been put in the most inconvenient sites - in garages, cellars, understair cupboards, under kitchen sinks, in boxes outside - with access for many being difficult unless you are 3ft tall, 7ft tall or a contortionist.

Hi, I don't have a gas meter but I have a highly automated smart home with lots of devices that use ZigBee, i.e the same type of network that smart meters use. Based on experience of that I'd be fairly confident of not having an issue with meters diagnolly opposite each other in a double garage, even with a car parked in. One possible gotcha is WiFi interference. But there are now dual band comms hubs and if there are any issues there the installer should now fit one. So I wouldn't anticipate a gas meter to comms hub issue but it is always possible.

As far as the connection back to your supplier is concerned, you mention mobile - this is only used on the south of the country. Assuming you are in the south, then virtually any kind of patchy O2 WiFi signal should be good enough as the amount of data is small and if it drops out occasionally it's no big deal, it will send the data through. It's probably worth going into the garage with an O2 mobile, closing the door and seeing if you get a signal.

Getting an IHD to work in the house might be a bit hit and miss. But if you are with Octopus you have the option of getting an Octopus mini, locating it in the garage and extending your WiFi to cover the garage if it doesn't already. (If it does, there's a reasonable chance that the ZigBee from the smart meter will work the other way). Once you have the mini working you'll get IHD data on your smart phone so you don't then need the IHD.

So there's a good chance of getting a working smart meter setup. But unfortunately it all comes down to the training and enthusiasm of the installer so nothing is guaranteed.
Even if it doesn't work, or only works in part, you won't lose much by trying other than needing to be there for the installation.

pseudodox

All seems so hit & miss, maybe, maybe not, whereas current set up of inputting readings on a spreadsheet & submitting once a month seems simpler, less time consuming, & has me totally in control without needing to get a smartphone.

Qyburn

pseudodox said:

All seems so hit & miss, maybe, maybe not, whereas current set up of inputting readings on a spreadsheet & submitting once a month seems simpler, less time consuming, & has me totally in control without needing to get a smartphone.

I've never seen that one before, but just for the record a smart meter does not require you to have a smart phone. You can read it just the same as a non-smart meter

FreeBear

Qyburn said:

pseudodox said:

All seems so hit & miss, maybe, maybe not, whereas current set up of inputting readings on a spreadsheet & submitting once a month seems simpler, less time consuming, & has me totally in control without needing to get a smartphone.

I've never seen that one before, but just for the record a smart meter does not require you to have a smart phone. You can read it just the same as a non-smart meter

If you get an Octopus Home Mini, you need a phone or tablet to run the app so that you can set the darned thing up. And if you don't have geolocation enabled, you will fail (unless they have fixed that bit) - I don't have a mobile phone, so needed to use a tablet that doesn't have geolocation. Ended up installing an app that spoofs location so that the Octopus app would work.

You also need the app if you want to display the "live" usage graphs. But for meter reads and historic consumption graphs, no app needed.

mmmmikey

pseudodox said:

All seems so hit & miss, maybe, maybe not, whereas current set up of inputting readings on a spreadsheet & submitting once a month seems simpler, less time consuming, & has me totally in control without needing to get a smartphone.

...but you don't get access to money saving smart tariffs that way, with many folks here saving £100s a year without actually changing their usage patterns. And if you are prepared and able to make changes, which can be as simple as putting the dishwasher on after 19:00 instead of straight after dinner if you eat earlier, you can save even more.

And you can still read the smart meter and keep a spreadsheet just like you always have done. I still do that myself, don't know why really as the smart meter works fine, but old habits die hard I guess.

And you don't need a smart phone to access the data, you can use whatever device you use to access this forum.

Agreed that in your particular case the installation may not be as straightforward as it is for the vast majority of people, but on the other hand it might be and all the technology exists to work through any issues should there be any.

Only one (low risk) way to find out. If it doesn't work you won't have lost anything but will be one step closer to getting something done that's going to have to be done at some stage anyway.

Very little, if anything, to lose but lots to gain.....

pseudodox

I know I don't need a smartphone to have SMs - you misunderstood my meaning.  No smartphone means I cannot get energy data via a mobile app if the IHD does not function.  If I have to use my desktop PC to access an app to check my energy usage it is no more convenient than updating my spreadsheet on there.  I don't have a dishwasher & I wash up when I am in the mood (could be 7am, could be midnight, and not every day).  I don't have any power hungry appliances & TOU tariffs are not something I want to be necessarily organising my life around, although I think they are a great bonus for many people.

One size does not fit all & I use energy when I want to & not by a timetable set by the supplier.  There are other areas of my life where I probably spend much less than some who are saving £100s on energy.  Gas, electric, water are background essentials but tech gadgets, new cars, eating out, entertainment, 72" TV screen, kitchen gadgets, foreign holidays, are not part of my simple lifestyle.

My main aversion to SMs is actually the way they have been marketed as if we are all idiots.  They will make not one iota of difference to MY usage, they will not give me any more control than my spreadsheet, because of location they will be more difficult for me to read (I will have to stand on something to be able to press buttons).  I have never in 50+ years as a bill payer had an estimated bill, have never been in debit or credit (apart from the current debit balance on my account which will clear when the MVDD is taken next week).  From the outset we should have been told quite simply SMs are the future & would be rolled out to every household as & when in the same way that we were all converted to natural gas.  Using Einstein to promote them as somehow doing us a favour is one of the worst advertising campaigns ever.

mmmmikey

pseudodox said:

I know I don't need a smartphone to have SMs - you misunderstood my meaning.  No smartphone means I cannot get energy data via a mobile app if the IHD does not function.  If I have to use my desktop PC to access an app to check my energy usage it is no more convenient than updating my spreadsheet on there.  I don't have a dishwasher & I wash up when I am in the mood (could be 7am, could be midnight, and not every day).  I don't have any power hungry appliances & TOU tariffs are not something I want to be necessarily organising my life around, although I think they are a great bonus for many people.

One size does not fit all & I use energy when I want to & not by a timetable set by the supplier.  There are other areas of my life where I probably spend much less than some who are saving £100s on energy.  Gas, electric, water are background essentials but tech gadgets, new cars, eating out, entertainment, 72" TV screen, kitchen gadgets, foreign holidays, are not part of my simple lifestyle.

My main aversion to SMs is actually the way they have been marketed as if we are all idiots.  They will make not one iota of difference to MY usage, they will not give me any more control than my spreadsheet, because of location they will be more difficult for me to read (I will have to stand on something to be able to press buttons).  I have never in 50+ years as a bill payer had an estimated bill, have never been in debit or credit (apart from the current debit balance on my account which will clear when the MVDD is taken next week).  From the outset we should have been told quite simply SMs are the future & would be rolled out to every household as & when in the same way that we were all converted to natural gas.  Using Einstein to promote them as somehow doing us a favour is one of the worst advertising campaigns ever.

Agree with pretty much everything you say in the last paragraph. The point of my post yesterday was really to make you aware that if the smart meter benefits that many of us enjoy are, or become, something that is of interest to you then although your installation might be challenging it's certainly do-able.

EssexHebridean

tim_p said:

EssexHebridean said:

For those with Octopus also be aware that their excellent "Home Mini" device can supply far more detailed information about your use directly to the app and online account - which is far more useful than a little screen in the kitchen or wherever will ever be! Hopefully more suppliers will start doing similar devices. 

What exactly?  He mine a while and all it seems to add is the ‘Live’ figure in the app. Is that it?

Live figure in two different formats which can be handy for trying to work out actual power consumption for a particular item (or to track down "older style" lightbulbs!) plus more detailed info in the app for the recent and daily use has been the winner for me - not something that the IHD can be a lot of help with. 

pseudodox

I see people here being drawn into accepting SMs with the carrot of TOU tariffs.  Some then find the SM does not function in a smart way & they cannot get the TOU tariff they had signed up for.  This makes those people understandably very annoyed.  I will accept SMs without argument when they become mandatory, or when it suits me (whichever is earlier) but I will not accept SMs as a carrot to entice me into to something that might or might not work.  If the smart function proves to be dumb then agreed I have lost nothing per se.  If they do work then that could be a bonus.  However I will still read my meters (despite the inconvenience of having to move the car, move a tool rack, stand on something to press the buttons and hope I don't fall) and enter the readings both on my spreadsheet and to my energy supplier.  At the mo I don't have to move anything or risk life and limb as I simply glance up each morning with a torch and note the readings.  Simples!  

My life is too busy (and maybe now too short) to be monitoring every last lightbulb and lamp socket in the house.  I only switch things on when they are needed and don't need to know what everything is using individually.  However I noticed last week my elec consumption was unusually up and down day to day.  Checked the few possible causes and realised the 20 year old fridge had gone rogue.  I did not need a SM to tell me that.  New fridge arrives today.  Sorted.

Perhaps someone who has saved £100s on energy would like to say how much they have spent on motoring over the past 22 years.  My total costs to date are £36,500 - new car purchase, VED, MOT, insurance, repairs, fuel etc.  We all prioritise our spending differently.  My energy consumption using the last 12 months prices averages out at £23 per week, plus £3 per week for water, which I think is fine for having it instantly available 24/7/365.  I had a treat of a takeaway meal last week - not much change from £15.  I was hungry again by next morning.

tim_p

EssexHebridean said:

tim_p said:

EssexHebridean said:

For those with Octopus also be aware that their excellent "Home Mini" device can supply far more detailed information about your use directly to the app and online account - which is far more useful than a little screen in the kitchen or wherever will ever be! Hopefully more suppliers will start doing similar devices. 

What exactly?  He mine a while and all it seems to add is the ‘Live’ figure in the app. Is that it?

Live figure in two different formats which can be handy for trying to work out actual power consumption for a particular item (or to track down "older style" lightbulbs!) plus more detailed info in the app for the recent and daily use has been the winner for me - not something that the IHD can be a lot of help with. 

So not a lot then really. I know what stuff uses, always have done so that aspect is of no use. “Live” isn’t (at the moment anyway) either as daily usage is covered by solar and battery, I currently use around 200Wh per day (admittedly not sure where that’s going!). IHD displays the actual meter reading (yes, checked it matches meter) which the Mini doesn’t seem to. Therefore feeling somewhat underwhelmed I’m sorry to say.