Changing to smart meters, just a heads up

MattMattMattUK

The Octopus Mini has an element of lag, as an example if I boil the kettle then the live usage of the kettle will not show in the app until the kettle has actually boiled and switched off. The gap is around minute on the 30 minute live data setting and around 30 seconds on the five minute live data setting. 

The mini is very good from the perspective that it enables more granular data and makes it easier to see throughout the whole day, it does also mean that there is not the 1-2 day lag before data appears online from usage. The Octopus which the Mini feeds into always displays the correct meter reading for me (or within the accuracy that the meter itself records and within a period of lag. 

Spoonie_Turtle

pseudodox said:

Perhaps someone who has saved £100s on energy would like to say how much they have spent on motoring over the past 22 years.  My total costs to date are £36,500 - new car purchase, VED, MOT, insurance, repairs, fuel etc.  

Family car (because I can no longer drive): £1100 on a car 11 years ago, £3995 on a car one year ago because we needed a specific model to fit my larger wheelchair in.  Plus fuel, tax, insurance, MOTs and servicing, the usual. 
My own cars before that: first one cost £500 but that was an extremely generous gift from my grandmother so my only expenses were in running it, then after that got written off thanks to some black ice, £360 for my next car plus running costs.  1.1 and 1.2 petrol engines respectively, so you can imagine how cheap the fuel was - and considering I was young, the insurance wasn't bad either.

The Tracker tariff saved us well over £1,100 last year*.
[Unfortunately since having covid last year my cognitive dysfunction is even worse than it was before so I've not been able to work out the exact saving - I couldn't make head nor tail of the spreadsheet I was keeping to be able to update it.]
*Although in fairness with the formula change and the price cap lowering, I don't expect it to save us anywhere near that much this year.  Probably more like low £100s.

We also don't have … what was it? "tech gadgets, new cars, eating out, entertainment, 72" TV screen, kitchen gadgets, foreign holidays"

^ for clarity, you're well within your rights to make your own choices as we all are, and of course we all prioritise how we spend accordingly.  It just amused me, the idea you think those of us who've made large savings must be spending our money on certain other things instead.

MP1995

@pseudodox

My main aversion to SMs is actually the way they have been marketed as if we are all idiots.

Unfortunately marketing and advertising has to hit the low hanging fruit for want of a better analogy.

The key is the forums like here and other sites that know their smart meter cherries and can point people towards saving hundreds and some over a thousand of pounds a year.

What is idiotic is ignoring the great knowledge here and not getting a smart meter imo.

EssexHebridean

tim_p said:

EssexHebridean said:

tim_p said:

EssexHebridean said:

For those with Octopus also be aware that their excellent "Home Mini" device can supply far more detailed information about your use directly to the app and online account - which is far more useful than a little screen in the kitchen or wherever will ever be! Hopefully more suppliers will start doing similar devices. 

What exactly?  He mine a while and all it seems to add is the ‘Live’ figure in the app. Is that it?

Live figure in two different formats which can be handy for trying to work out actual power consumption for a particular item (or to track down "older style" lightbulbs!) plus more detailed info in the app for the recent and daily use has been the winner for me - not something that the IHD can be a lot of help with. 

So not a lot then really. I know what stuff uses, always have done so that aspect is of no use. “Live” isn’t (at the moment anyway) either as daily usage is covered by solar and battery, I currently use around 200Wh per day (admittedly not sure where that’s going!). IHD displays the actual meter reading (yes, checked it matches meter) which the Mini doesn’t seem to. Therefore feeling somewhat underwhelmed I’m sorry to say.  

Each to their own I guess - yes, I use my mini in combination with the IHD for - for example meter readings, but it can also be useful on it's own. We're not fortunate enough to be able to have solar fitted currently, so we are quite keen to keep a proper track of use. I guess it comes down to "just because something is of no interest to one person, doesn't mean it will be of no interest to everybody" and indeed vice versa!

@MattMattMattUK That's interesting - I find as long as mine is set to show "last 5 minutes" it updates within a few seconds of, for example the kettle being switched on, to show that use. Same with the hob, oven, or whatever. I wonder whether it's something to do with the speed of the wifi it's connected to, perhaps? 

bob2302

pseudodox said:

  I don't have any power hungry appliances & TOU tariffs are not something I want to be necessarily organising my life around,

Yes, but lots of people do have  power hungry appliances and use them between 4pm and 7pm. If you are on a flat rate, you are either in that group or subsidizing them.

Reed_Richards

Yes, we have an electric oven and an electric hob that get more use between 4 PM and 7 PM then for the whole of the rest of the day.

MattMattMattUK

EssexHebridean said:

tim_p said:

EssexHebridean said:

tim_p said:

EssexHebridean said:

For those with Octopus also be aware that their excellent "Home Mini" device can supply far more detailed information about your use directly to the app and online account - which is far more useful than a little screen in the kitchen or wherever will ever be! Hopefully more suppliers will start doing similar devices. 

What exactly?  He mine a while and all it seems to add is the ‘Live’ figure in the app. Is that it?

Live figure in two different formats which can be handy for trying to work out actual power consumption for a particular item (or to track down "older style" lightbulbs!) plus more detailed info in the app for the recent and daily use has been the winner for me - not something that the IHD can be a lot of help with. 

So not a lot then really. I know what stuff uses, always have done so that aspect is of no use. “Live” isn’t (at the moment anyway) either as daily usage is covered by solar and battery, I currently use around 200Wh per day (admittedly not sure where that’s going!). IHD displays the actual meter reading (yes, checked it matches meter) which the Mini doesn’t seem to. Therefore feeling somewhat underwhelmed I’m sorry to say.  

Each to their own I guess - yes, I use my mini in combination with the IHD for - for example meter readings, but it can also be useful on it's own. We're not fortunate enough to be able to have solar fitted currently, so we are quite keen to keep a proper track of use. I guess it comes down to "just because something is of no interest to one person, doesn't mean it will be of no interest to everybody" and indeed vice versa!

@ MattMattMattUK That's interesting - I find as long as mine is set to show "last 5 minutes" it updates within a few seconds of, for example the kettle being switched on, to show that use. Same with the hob, oven, or whatever. I wonder whether it's something to do with the speed of the wifi it's connected to, perhaps? 

I do not think it can be Wifi or broadband related as I have a symmetric 500Mb fibre connection and Google Nest WiFi Pro with the primary point less than 30cm from the Mini.

I have just tested again and the lag on 5 minute setting 18 seconds, still not instantaneous but quicker than previous tests. 

EssexHebridean

Oddly enough @MattMattMattUK I did think as I was typing the previous that I had a sneaking feeling that you may well be someone who has a pretty spot-on wifi set up!  Ours is certainly less beefy than yours, so I can only assume that it might just be down to chance, when one looks to see how fast things do update. 

To add to the conversations about TOU tariffs, my feeling is that when looking at the "general consumer" rather than "energy geek" market, they are particularly well suited to those who have lived with E7 electricity at any stage as you are then well used to load shifting for best economy. Of course not everyone wants the best economy either - an odd concept for a money saving site I know, but there you go, each to their own!

MattMattMattUK

EssexHebridean said:

Oddly enough @MattMattMattUK I did think as I was typing the previous that I had a sneaking feeling that you may well be someone who has a pretty spot-on wifi set up! 

Yes, I am a geek... I also need a fast connection for work, although to be fair I could get away with 250Mb, but because of a deal and cashback it was actually cheaper to go for the 500Mb connection. 

EssexHebridean said:

Ours is certainly less beefy than yours, so I can only assume that it might just be down to chance, when one looks to see how fast things do update. 

I think there is an element of chance, but also probably a technical basis, it probably reports in specific windows, they might be 5 seconds and it might take one or two windows of time to be processed and it also depends where one starts in a window, eg. if you start usage at the start of a 5 second window then that adds 5 seconds to the lag, but if you start usage at the very end it might only add 0.1 seconds, then say 2-3 windows need to be processed before it can be shown in the app, so potentially something like that. There could of course be other variables such as the number of people in the country live viewing at any one time, general internet traffic outside of one's own connection, overall server load at their end etc. I tested a second time and it was 16 seconds, so there is both an element of variability and also that is significantly reduced from when I started testing when I first got the Mini. We also might be on different firmware where they roll out updates at a different pace, or even running several different versions as it is a beta product. 

EssexHebridean said:

To add to the conversations about TOU tariffs, my feeling is that when looking at the "general consumer" rather than "energy geek" market, they are particularly well suited to those who have lived with E7 electricity at any stage as you are then well used to load shifting for best economy.

I agree, it is also worth considering that a lot of home tech is doing more of the geek stuff itself now as well. Those with battery and solar, who may not be geeks, just people who want to save money and insulate themselves from cost fluctuations can have their systems automate the cost savings, storing when most beneficial, exporting at peak times, running heat pumps at the cheapest times, integrating with smart tariffs and importing when costs are low or even negative costs etc. Geeks and early adopters always have a good idea of what is going on, but as the tech improves it will just end up being operated fully seamlessly in the background.

EssexHebridean said:

Of course not everyone wants the best economy either - an odd concept for a money saving site I know, but there you go, each to their own!

There are some reasons where it is a balance, in winter it might potentially make sense to keep a higher battery reserve to reduce the need to import at peak times, things like that. In general though a lot of that resistance comes from fear, people have always operated in a certain way and the idea of change, even if that change is sensible and totally rational, is scary to them. 

UnsureAboutthis

katejo said:

pseudodox said:

I keep seeing people saying their smart gas meter does not work because it is too far from the electric meter.  Can anyone give examples of how far apart they are because that is one aspect of having SMs myself that I think could be an issue, as the meters are diagonally opposite across a large garage.  And I am in a mobile phone signal iffy blackspot ("now it works, now it doesn't" scenario) & the garage is the lowest part of a townhouse built into a hillside.  The only part of the garage that a signal might transmit through is the front access metal roller door And the chances of an IHD toy working are probably zilch unless it sits next to the meter, which would hardly fulfill the "see at a glance" usage output.

Really do not understand why meters have generally been put in the most inconvenient sites - in garages, cellars, understair cupboards, under kitchen sinks, in boxes outside - with access for many being difficult unless you are 3ft tall, 7ft tall or a contortionist.

My electric smart meter is in a cupboard under the stairs. My gas one is mounted under my front window. My IHD is roughly halfway between them but hasn't yet worked for gas. For electricity, it works most of the time. 

Same for my brother
Even moving the IHD right next to the meters or in between them, t will not work for gas.
The supplier has said in a roundabout way, !!!!!! happens and you have to live with it.

The whole sales campaign/pitch is based around, reading your gas/electric usage at a glance (without touching a button is my interpretation) and then deciding if you need to reduce usage etc. Even the Ofgem link suggests that.

The suppliers including OFGEM need to be clear that IHD's may not work in certain circumstances even when place right next to the meter/s.