We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that dates on the Forum are not currently showing correctly. Please bear with us while we get this fixed, and see Site feedback for updates.

Package Holiday - mis-sold?

2»

Comments

  • ThumbRemote
    ThumbRemote Posts: 4,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    It's an interesting scenario because you'd specifically brought up the evening entertainment. Had it been a product you were buying, you'd be entitled to unwind the contract because of this. It's much harder to put a price on it for a holiday, but you're going to have to come up with a number you think represents the loss of value in your holiday. 

    However, bear in mind that Tui aren't going to just pay up. They'll offer a token amount (as you've seen), beyond that you're going to have to take it to small claims court. In this case you'll need to list exactly what was different in the evening entertainment between the two years - what you got last year, and what you got this year instead. 

  • So you've been refunded £200 already and now been offered an extra £100 taking it to a £300 refund. As such based on what you've written, I can't see what else you want.
    The £100 is a voucher that may never be used. Unsure if it could be sold on.

    OP said in her post a voucher would be acceptable.
    Maybe I'm having a bit of brain fog but can't see where the OP stated a voucher would be OK.
    Let's Be Careful Out There
  • Alderbank
    Alderbank Posts: 3,609 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper

    So you've been refunded £200 already and now been offered an extra £100 taking it to a £300 refund. As such based on what you've written, I can't see what else you want.
    The £100 is a voucher that may never be used. Unsure if it could be sold on.

    OP said in her post a voucher would be acceptable.
    Maybe I'm having a bit of brain fog but can't see where the OP stated a voucher would be OK.
    It's where she said
    'I would have liked to have been reimbursed for some of the cost of the holiday (refund or voucher)'
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 17,067 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    OP  what you will be looking at is "Loss of Enjoyment"
    You seem to have made it clear that having evening entertainment run by TUI staff was important to you. Not having that meant your holiday wasn't as good.
    Work out what you want to claim back (in cash) and then submit that figure.
    The Case Law is  Jarvis v Swans Tours Ltd that allows claims for LoE

    It is not clear to me that the OP did not have "evening entertainment run by TUI staff":
    DiH1980 said:

    * Recently returned from a TUI package holiday, actually visited the same hotel last year. It was advertised as a 'TUI Blue for families', as previous.
    * We were informed by email of some changes to facilities (3 specific named things) prior to departure and given £200 compensation / offered to change holiday.
    * Contacted TUI by phone and online chat (have recording and copy of both) to check that the hotel was still a 'family' hotel and the evening entertainment would still be ran by TUI staff/same as last year. Said this was extremely important factor for us as the kids evening entertainment was the main reason we chose to return. We were told on both occasions it would be the same, TUI kids entertainment would still be there including the TUI kids mascots and the only changes were as laid out in the email.
    * I asked, and it was confirmed, that if this were to change  I would be notified.
    * On arrival we found out the hotel concept was changed to a 'TUI Blue For All' and the evening entertainment was now delivered inhouse and not by a TUI entertainment team as expected. 
    As I read that, this is a TUI hotel.  Previously internally group branded as "TUI Blue for Families" and now internally group branded as "TUI Blue for All".  Still, however, a TUI hotel.

    The question asked (and confirmed) was to check that "the evening entertainment would still be ran by TUI staff"

    In the event, the evening entertainment "was now delivered inhouse".

    AIUI, if this is a TUI hotel, then all staff are TUI staff so it is splitting hairs (if that) between "ran by TUI staff" and "delivered in house".  If there is more to the difference of what was delivered against the conversation as to what would be delivered, it is not clear to me.

    In discount and voucher, the OP has so far received £300 reduction in price paid.  I assume that is a reasonable proportion of the overall holiday cost.

    If the OP plans to follow through the courts for Loss of Entertainment, then something clearer than the difference between "TUI Staff" and "delivered inhouse" might need to be clarified.
  • DiH1980
    DiH1980 Posts: 5 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Thank you everyone. We will maybe try via the small claims route, like I said it's more principal now and not necessarily about the money, hence the reason we would have accepted a voucher should they have offered a little bit more and took responsibility for it.

    My post did just give the main points but for those invested in this now haha the £200 original compensation was for 3 changes (no longer a coffee shop on site, no baby childcare club and not swim/football academy) none of this affected us hence the reason we were happy to accept and, after contacting TUI to check everything else was in place, proceed with this holiday.
    The hotel is part of the Atlantica group, the entertainment was delivered by 2 members of their staff. TUI last year ( and all other Blue for Families hotels we have visited) offered all childcare, daytime activity and evening entertainment programme from their own TUI employed residential team. I have screenshots of the entertainment programme we received this year and what other TUI family hotels are offering this year, no comparison! 
    All in the holiday cost £2500 for 3 of us, we had 200 refunded as above. A figure in my head I'd be content with is £250. We went with our 7  year old daughter who loves the tui evening entertainment hence the reason we booked that concept again and specifically checked after some other changes were made.
    What we got....and the mini game happened 1 night out if 7 and was musical statues 


    What we were expecting and told would still be in place......



  • DiH1980 said:
    Thank you everyone. We will maybe try via the small claims route, like I said it's more principal now and not necessarily about the money, hence the reason we would have accepted a voucher should they have offered a little bit more and took responsibility for it.

    My post did just give the main points but for those invested in this now haha the £200 original compensation was for 3 changes (no longer a coffee shop on site, no baby childcare club and not swim/football academy) none of this affected us hence the reason we were happy to accept and, after contacting TUI to check everything else was in place, proceed with this holiday.
    The hotel is part of the Atlantica group, the entertainment was delivered by 2 members of their staff. TUI last year ( and all other Blue for Families hotels we have visited) offered all childcare, daytime activity and evening entertainment programme from their own TUI employed residential team. I have screenshots of the entertainment programme we received this year and what other TUI family hotels are offering this year, no comparison! 
    All in the holiday cost £2500 for 3 of us, we had 200 refunded as above. A figure in my head I'd be content with is £250. We went with our 7  year old daughter who loves the tui evening entertainment hence the reason we booked that concept again and specifically checked after some other changes were made.
    What we got....and the mini game happened 1 night out if 7 and was musical statues 


    What we were expecting and told would still be in place......



    The small claims court deals in money though, not principles.

  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 17,067 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 29 June 2024 am30 9:40AM
    DiH1980 said:
    Thank you everyone. We will maybe try via the small claims route, like I said it's more principal now and not necessarily about the money, hence the reason we would have accepted a voucher should they have offered a little bit more and took responsibility for it.

    The hotel is part of the Atlantica group, the entertainment was delivered by 2 members of their staff. TUI last year ( and all other Blue for Families hotels we have visited) offered all childcare, daytime activity and evening entertainment programme from their own TUI employed residential team.

    All in the holiday cost £2500 for 3 of us, we had 200 refunded as above. A figure in my head I'd be content with is £250. 

    I may have misunderstood but I thought you had received £200 plus the £100 voucher - so that is a total of £300.
    Yet you say you'd be content with £250, which is 10% of the original value...

    Is the hotel, to all intents and purposes, a TUI hotel? 
    Is Atlantica Group either a TUI group company or franchise operator of the TUI hotel?
    If so, it may be difficult to establish a differential between "TUI staff" and "hotel inhouse".

    Any action along the small claims route will require your losses to be quantified against some metric.  Usually, that would be calculatable and demonstrable monetary loss.  For a "loss of enjoyment" claim, the metric is not so clearly demonstrable but you would plausibly have to work out a value based on some other comparator.

    In terms of possible weaknesses in any claim.
     - You say you are willing to accept a voucher for another TUI holiday - does that contradict your assertion that the TUI product now offered is not suitable?
     - Is any element of the loss of enjoyment associated with your 7 YO daughter outgrowing the activities?  Had she still been 6 YO, would she have found the activities equally as enjoyable as last year?  (I realise that is an impossible to answer question.)


    EDIT - I just looked on the TUI website and, as far as I can tell, Atlantica Hotels have their own hotels plus operate some of the TUI Blue and TUI Signature destinations.  If the hotel was branded TUI Blue, then there would be no difference between TUI staff and staff of the hotel.  This is, to all intents and purposes, a TUI hotel and you have to look deeply to realise that is not the case.  A bit like a burger chain - how do you know which are owned and operated by the parent company or which are owned and operated by a franchisee?
  • ThumbRemote
    ThumbRemote Posts: 4,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    DiH1980 said:
    Thank you everyone. We will maybe try via the small claims route, like I said it's more principal now and not necessarily about the money, hence the reason we would have accepted a voucher should they have offered a little bit more and took responsibility for it.

    The hotel is part of the Atlantica group, the entertainment was delivered by 2 members of their staff. TUI last year ( and all other Blue for Families hotels we have visited) offered all childcare, daytime activity and evening entertainment programme from their own TUI employed residential team.

    All in the holiday cost £2500 for 3 of us, we had 200 refunded as above. A figure in my head I'd be content with is £250. 

    I may have misunderstood but I thought you had received £200 plus the £100 voucher - so that is a total of £300.
    Yet you say you'd be content with £250, which is 10% of the original value...

    Is the hotel, to all intents and purposes, a TUI hotel? 
    Is Atlantica Group either a TUI group company or franchise operator of the TUI hotel?
    If so, it may be difficult to establish a differential between "TUI staff" and "hotel inhouse".

    Any action along the small claims route will require your losses to be quantified against some metric.  Usually, that would be calculatable and demonstrable monetary loss.  For a "loss of enjoyment" claim, the metric is not so clearly demonstrable but you would plausibly have to work out a value based on some other comparator.

    In terms of possible weaknesses in any claim.
     - You say you are willing to accept a voucher for another TUI holiday - does that contradict your assertion that the TUI product now offered is not suitable?
     - Is any element of the loss of enjoyment associated with your 7 YO daughter outgrowing the activities?  Had she still been 6 YO, would she have found the activities equally as enjoyable as last year?  (I realise that is an impossible to answer question.)
    From having been on this sort of holiday in the past, there is a clear difference between the travel company staff and the hotel staff. 

    With the Tui Blue (and also First Choice Holiday Villages) branding, the hotel is a standard hotel part of a chain, but the tour operator overlay their own staff and entertainment within the hotel. So you'd have Atlantica staff in reception, the restaurant etc, but then a whole team of Tui staff running kids clubs and daytime and evening entertainment. They are quite clearly different to the local staff. This is a key selling point for the holidays as Tui can advertise what's on offer, as opposed to (say) Jet2 who just state there's a hotel-run 'Children's club' which may be of very variable quality, if it exists at all. 

    With regards the metric, if the OP can price up what Tui were charging for the hotel originally vs what they charge now, that would be one way. I think they have a far stronger case for a financial claim because they specifically asked the question. 

    And regards vouchers, Tui still offer Tui Blue for Families hotels - just not at the hotel the OP booked.
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 17,067 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    From having been on this sort of holiday in the past, there is a clear difference between the travel company staff and the hotel staff. 

    Thanks - I did initially think it may be like a fully branded "TUI" hotel rather than an overlay (which I am not sure that I understand how that works, but don't need to for this discussion).
    The key thing is, when you arrive, the hotel entrance says "Atlantica Hotel Mediterranean Resort No1" and not "TUI Blue Hotel Mediterranean Resort No1" or wherever.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 348.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 452.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 240.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 617.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 175.7K Life & Family
  • 254.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.