Dismissal on probation

oldernonethewiser

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

I decided that unless I find another solution I will write to MP. They have to do something to protect rights of employees during first two years of their employment.

No, they don't.

I mean that they may change a legislation by somehow. I do think that they will intervene into a situation that has already happened.

I knew what you meant. There has never been a period when employees got legal rights against most forms of dismissal from day one. I doubt there will ever be. So my answer still stands - they won't change legislation. And even if they did, in the end the employer decides whether you have the skills they need, and no law is ever going to tell an employer that they must employ someone when they don't. The only real difference that two years would have made to you would have been that they had to jump through a few more hoops to do what they did - not that you could have stopped them. 

The Labour Party plans to change a legislation to give employees more rights from the beginning of the employment.

Any incoming party may have plans to change many things.

Not all come to fruition.

Nothing unethical in what the employers have done in this case.

Undervalued

Jude57 said:

_Diana_ said:

It's a reply to the last two comments: you mix up ethics and legislation.

Be aware that throwing around accusations that a previous employer was 'unethical' without concrete, irrefutable evidence is likely to be seen by potential future employers as a red flag against you. Badmouthing previous employers isn't wise in most circumstances and if your previous employer finds out, failing probation could be the least of your problems.

There's nothing inherently unethical in an employer seeking to quickly terminate an unsatisfactory employee and minimising the costs of addressing the failings. Recruitment and training are expensive processes for employers and, frankly, they're entitled to cut their losses if they feel that the employee isn't worth further investment. It's harsh but it's a fact of life.

Based on what you've written, you/your skills unfortunately weren't a good fit, the company gave you appropriate, paid notice and offered a reference which you declined. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the company might have been willing to provide a reference saying that you mutually agreed that it wasn't working out and both decided to part ways. That reference is now unlikely to be negotiable and you'll need to leave that period of employment off your CV - unless you are applying for a regulated role where you are required to provide full details of every day of your working life. 

Be aware that a reference must, legally, be truthful and not deliberately misleading. Your former employer saying that you failed probation and were terminated after two months is absolutely true and they are entitled to say that and no more, if they choose.

Other posters recommending you put this behind you and move on are speaking from experience and it really is in your best interests to do just that. Forget your campaign against what you see as unethical behaviour by your  previous employer. Find a new job and perhaps be less passive in the probation period by actively seeking feedback on your performance. 

Absolutely.

Remember too that in giving a reference an employer owes an equal duty to both the former employee and the prospective employer.

_Diana_

Undervalued said:

Jude57 said:

_Diana_ said:

It's a reply to the last two comments: you mix up ethics and legislation.

Be aware that throwing around accusations that a previous employer was 'unethical' without concrete, irrefutable evidence is likely to be seen by potential future employers as a red flag against you. Badmouthing previous employers isn't wise in most circumstances and if your previous employer finds out, failing probation could be the least of your problems.

There's nothing inherently unethical in an employer seeking to quickly terminate an unsatisfactory employee and minimising the costs of addressing the failings. Recruitment and training are expensive processes for employers and, frankly, they're entitled to cut their losses if they feel that the employee isn't worth further investment. It's harsh but it's a fact of life.

Based on what you've written, you/your skills unfortunately weren't a good fit, the company gave you appropriate, paid notice and offered a reference which you declined. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the company might have been willing to provide a reference saying that you mutually agreed that it wasn't working out and both decided to part ways. That reference is now unlikely to be negotiable and you'll need to leave that period of employment off your CV - unless you are applying for a regulated role where you are required to provide full details of every day of your working life. 

Be aware that a reference must, legally, be truthful and not deliberately misleading. Your former employer saying that you failed probation and were terminated after two months is absolutely true and they are entitled to say that and no more, if they choose.

Other posters recommending you put this behind you and move on are speaking from experience and it really is in your best interests to do just that. Forget your campaign against what you see as unethical behaviour by your  previous employer. Find a new job and perhaps be less passive in the probation period by actively seeking feedback on your performance. 

Absolutely.

Remember too that in giving a reference an employer owes an equal duty to both the former employee and the prospective employer.

Guys, I am not a young person. I have been working in this country for more than 20 years. I know very well how all aspects of recruitment (including referencing) work. I am not going to argue about references here just because it's out of scope of this thread.

LinLui

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

I decided that unless I find another solution I will write to MP. They have to do something to protect rights of employees during first two years of their employment.

No, they don't.

I mean that they may change a legislation by somehow. I do think that they will intervene into a situation that has already happened.

I knew what you meant. There has never been a period when employees got legal rights against most forms of dismissal from day one. I doubt there will ever be. So my answer still stands - they won't change legislation. And even if they did, in the end the employer decides whether you have the skills they need, and no law is ever going to tell an employer that they must employ someone when they don't. The only real difference that two years would have made to you would have been that they had to jump through a few more hoops to do what they did - not that you could have stopped them. 

The Labour Party plans to change a legislation to give employees more rights from the beginning of the employment.

Of course they do. Political parties always keep their promises too.

But I think you aren't hearing the message here. If you had employment protection right now, it still wouldn't have made any difference. The employer had a valid reason to dismiss with notice. They dismissed with notice. All legally done. You seem to be confusing "unfair dismissal, the legal concept" with "I feel hard done to and its not fair". Your complaint is the latter, and not the former. 

_Diana_

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

I decided that unless I find another solution I will write to MP. They have to do something to protect rights of employees during first two years of their employment.

No, they don't.

I mean that they may change a legislation by somehow. I do think that they will intervene into a situation that has already happened.

I knew what you meant. There has never been a period when employees got legal rights against most forms of dismissal from day one. I doubt there will ever be. So my answer still stands - they won't change legislation. And even if they did, in the end the employer decides whether you have the skills they need, and no law is ever going to tell an employer that they must employ someone when they don't. The only real difference that two years would have made to you would have been that they had to jump through a few more hoops to do what they did - not that you could have stopped them. 

The Labour Party plans to change a legislation to give employees more rights from the beginning of the employment.

Of course they do. Political parties always keep their promises too.

But I think you aren't hearing the message here. If you had employment protection right now, it still wouldn't have made any difference. The employer had a valid reason to dismiss with notice. They dismissed with notice. All legally done. You seem to be confusing "unfair dismissal, the legal concept" with "I feel hard done to and its not fair". Your complaint is the latter, and not the former. 

I want to say that the current legislation cannot prevent unethical behaviour of employers (even may promote it).

oldernonethewiser

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

LinLui said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

I decided that unless I find another solution I will write to MP. They have to do something to protect rights of employees during first two years of their employment.

No, they don't.

I mean that they may change a legislation by somehow. I do think that they will intervene into a situation that has already happened.

I knew what you meant. There has never been a period when employees got legal rights against most forms of dismissal from day one. I doubt there will ever be. So my answer still stands - they won't change legislation. And even if they did, in the end the employer decides whether you have the skills they need, and no law is ever going to tell an employer that they must employ someone when they don't. The only real difference that two years would have made to you would have been that they had to jump through a few more hoops to do what they did - not that you could have stopped them. 

The Labour Party plans to change a legislation to give employees more rights from the beginning of the employment.

Of course they do. Political parties always keep their promises too.

But I think you aren't hearing the message here. If you had employment protection right now, it still wouldn't have made any difference. The employer had a valid reason to dismiss with notice. They dismissed with notice. All legally done. You seem to be confusing "unfair dismissal, the legal concept" with "I feel hard done to and its not fair". Your complaint is the latter, and not the former. 

I want to say that the current legislation cannot prevent unethical behaviour of employers (even may promote it).

As there has been no unethical behaviour in this case any current legislation will be irrelevant.

NCC1701-A

If you just want to moan about your former company you could leave a review on glass door - just understand that if you write something untrue, like 'this company is unethical' you could be sued. 

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/index.htm

Marcon

Do you think they might have found a polite way of avoiding telling you that you were pompous, argumentative and unrealistic? Rightly or wrongly, those are the character traits I'm picking up from your posts.

sheramber

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

DE_612183 said:

_Diana_ said:

DE_612183 said:

Not sure what you are asking - you don't say what you want to happen - you don't want the job, you don't want compensation.

Move on get another job - perhaps tell your friends not to work for them.

As you say they have not done anything legally wrong.

This is what I am asking "I just want to show to an employer that their behaviour was below all ethical norms".

Depends on the size of the company - if it's a big one - you could they emailing the CEO - if it's small it's very unlikely they will take any notice of your complaint.

You could try and take it to a local paper - but be aware that might mark you down as a troublemaker and stop potential future employers taking you on

I decided that unless I find another solution I will write to MP. They have to do something to protect rights of employees during first two years of their employment.

You will need to wait until you have an MP after the General ELection.

_Diana_

Marcon said:

Do you think they might have found a polite way of avoiding telling you that you were pompous, argumentative and unrealistic? Rightly or wrongly, those are the character traits I'm picking up from your posts.

I understand very well that anyone can see those character traits in my posts, but I have never argued with anyone in this company. I was only starting and I just followed instructions a colleague gave me in order to master operations/procedures I had to run. It's all.