Neighbour dispute over boundary

courtney_m7

We’ve just bought a house and our garden backs onto rear neighbour’s garden. She has a fence up already and has started taking it down as she wants to move it 5feet into our garden where her boundary supposedly is. Our title plan shows that there is a small area of unregistered land within our boundary which the council were going to build an alleyway which never went ahead. The neighbour to the rear is stating that it’s her land and is trying to encroach on our property. Her title plan shows that her rear fence/boundsry would be in line with our neighbours to the right however she seems to think differently. What can we do? And shouldn’t this be her to prove that it’s her boundary? Seeing as she wants to move her fence back?

Brie

Put your fence up first??  Even if it should be your neighbour's responsibility???

Might try showing her the plans you got when you purchased just to prove your point.  And maybe offer to pay halves to get a nice fence up but in the right place.

And if she continues to disagree advise her that she is trespassing and that you will be quite happy to pull down anything she builds on your property and return the materials to her for disposal.  

Schwarzwald

 courtney_m7 said:

We’ve just bought a house and our garden backs onto rear neighbour’s garden. She has a fence up already and has started taking it down as she wants to move it 5feet into our garden where her boundary supposedly is. Our title plan shows that there is a small area of unregistered land within our boundary which the council were going to build an alleyway which never went ahead. The neighbour to the rear is stating that it’s her land and is trying to encroach on our property. Her title plan shows that her rear fence/boundsry would be in line with our neighbours to the right however she seems to think differently. What can we do? And shouldn’t this be her to prove that it’s her boundary? Seeing as she wants to move her fence back?

Is it really “your property” when you state in the same sentence that the land is actually unregistered?
it just seems to fall i to your boundary.
but in any case, would show the neighbor the paper work, document that conversation, and then protect that boundary, potentially by taking down whatever she puts up, if you are really confident you have a case.

might help to post some copies of the plan here

Doozergirl

How long hasBrie said:

Put your fence up first??  Even if it should be your neighbour's responsibility???

Might try showing her the plans you got when you purchased just to prove your point.  And maybe offer to pay halves to get a nice fence up but in the right place.

And if she continues to disagree advise her that she is trespassing and that you will be quite happy to pull down anything she builds on your property and return the materials to her for disposal.  

I think this is probably sensible.  

How long has the unregistered land been in the possession of your property?  On google earth you can look really quite far back. 

If it's been 12 years then may be worth contacting the land registry to claim possessory title of it yourselves.  

If it belongs to apparently nobody then if you've had it fenced off then you potentially have the claim.  She certainly doesn't. 

Sounds like she's trying it on.  

user1977

Given you've just bought and you seem aware about the title discrepancy, what was your solicitor's advice about it? Is the unregistered strip actually occupied by you (and your predecessors) as part of the garden?

ThisIsWeird

courtney_m7 said:

We’ve just bought a house and our garden backs onto rear neighbour’s garden. She has a fence up already and has started taking it down as she wants to move it 5feet into our garden where her boundary supposedly is. Our title plan shows that there is a small area of unregistered land within our boundary which the council were going to build an alleyway which never went ahead. The neighbour to the rear is stating that it’s her land and is trying to encroach on our property. Her title plan shows that her rear fence/boundsry would be in line with our neighbours to the right however she seems to think differently. What can we do? And shouldn’t this be her to prove that it’s her boundary? Seeing as she wants to move her fence back?

Things you can say with some certainty:

1) This neighbour currently has a fence which marks her known boundary. This boundary line agrees with that of her side neighbours. It is almost certainly 'correct' for her property.

2) There is a strip of unregistered land which sits within your known boundary, and it has been like that for X years*.

3) That land does not belong to your neighbour in any sense or manner whatsoever.

4) You might have some entitlement to that land, or be able to put in a claim, but you cannot currently state that with any certainty.

5) That land does not belong to your neighbour in any sense or manner whatsoever. Worth saying again.

If sounds as tho' this neighbour is trying to take advantage of their new neighbour being ignorant of the situation, and trying a land grab. If so, what an absolute ccconundrum. Do you know if they are new too? If not, what a welcome, guys! You now know their calibre - and are not to be trusted an iota. Expect, when their devious plans are scuppered, to then try being 'reasonable' - "What about half-way, then?" No...no...no.

What to do? I would put up my own fence tight against theirs, plant a few shrubs or a flower bed or position some tubs for good measure, set up a CCTV camera, and tell them in a recordable manner, "If you truly think you have a claim, then go through the correct legal process. You touch my fence, or any of my property, and I will make a claim for criminal property damage against you".

No discussion, no argument. Stick to the mantra above, and repeat it as often as you need to. Do not try and 'explain', do not try and 'reason'. If they try to argue, then eyeball them as they talk their own ears off, and then repeat that mantra.

If you need to stop them sooner than getting your own fence up, then just go for the planters and tubs and shrubs and stuff, right up to that existing fence. And the camera. No need for signs, if it covers only your land. Make sure it records sound too.

Oh, and for gawd's sakes make sure you have comprehensive Legal Protection included in your insurance policy - not the pathetic £25k jobbie thrown in as clickbait, but proper stuff. :-)

* And do your research - historic Google maps, contact your vendor, talk with other - friendly - neighbours, etc.

thegreenone

The neighbour has plenty of garden already!

Is it worth contacting the council to see if they have any paperwork from when the footpath was going to be put in?  Any correspondence to your former owners and NDNs may help your case against her.  If the council say it's their land, so be it.

ThisIsWeird

What do your deeds say in relation to the part marked in blue?

Wow! So the neighb who wished to grab that land already owns a garden 6 times larger than yours?!

And, your existing known boundary - the solid black line - borders two end neighbours, No's 8 and10? Which one is after your land - 8 or 10? And what do they expect to happen - it steps in to your land only one half width? Or are they acting in concert with their other side neighb?

From that map, I would say they haven't a snowball's chance. Stick to the mantra. Demonstrate that you have told them to make any attempt through the correct legal channels, and to otherwise not trespass. 

(Expect them, in pique, to inform the council of your use of that land when they realise they have no chance or grabbing it. I'd hope the council would be understanding. I suspect the council retain some rights over the blue, such as a 'right of way', but they haven't exercised it up until now, and I would suggest are unlikely to do so in the medium-long term future.)

LightFlare

ThisIsWeird said:

What do your deeds say in relation to the part marked in blue?

Wow! So the neighb who wished to grab that land already owns a garden 6 times larger than yours?!

And, your existing known boundary - the solid black line - borders two end neighbours, No's 10 and 12? Which one is after your land - 10 or 12? And what do they expect to happen - it steps in to your land only one half width? Or are they acting in concert with their other side neighb?

From that map, I would say they haven't a snowball's chance. Stick to the mantra. Demonstrate that you have told them to make any attempt through the correct legal channels, and to otherwise not trespass. 

(Expect them, in pique, to inform the council of your use of that land when they realise they have no chance or grabbing it. I'd hope the council would be understanding. I suspect the council retain some rights over the blue, such as a 'right of way', but they haven't exercised it up until now, and I would suggest are unlikely to do so in the medium-long term future.)

shouldnt that be 8 and 10 ?

ThisIsWeird

LightFlare said:

ThisIsWeird said:

What do your deeds say in relation to the part marked in blue?

Wow! So the neighb who wished to grab that land already owns a garden 6 times larger than yours?!

And, your existing known boundary - the solid black line - borders two end neighbours, No's 10 and 12? Which one is after your land - 10 or 12? And what do they expect to happen - it steps in to your land only one half width? Or are they acting in concert with their other side neighb?

From that map, I would say they haven't a snowball's chance. Stick to the mantra. Demonstrate that you have told them to make any attempt through the correct legal channels, and to otherwise not trespass. 

(Expect them, in pique, to inform the council of your use of that land when they realise they have no chance or grabbing it. I'd hope the council would be understanding. I suspect the council retain some rights over the blue, such as a 'right of way', but they haven't exercised it up until now, and I would suggest are unlikely to do so in the medium-long term future.)

shouldnt that be 8 and 10 ?

Oops, thanks - corrected :-)

ThisIsWeird

Courtney, you do realise that your location is easily identifiable from these maps? Mind you, that's not really a problem for you, and it might do your neighbour at No 8 a service to read this thread  

Bottom line - the extent of your entitlement to use that land will be as outlined in words in your deeds - ie with ref to that blue area. So, what do the 'words' say about the 'blue'?

Regardless, the 'blue' is clearly shown as being within your curtilage - it is your land. The council may - probably do - retain some rights over it, but it is still your land. It certainly ain't your neighb's.

Until the council decide to make use of it - and fair chance they never will - use it as your own garden. What's on there at the mo'? If no nice planting there, I'd do so. Or, a nice bench. Ie, anything that your misguided neighbour would need to move or damage if they are idiotic enough to attempt unilateral action.

Your neighbour at No 8 does not - in any circumstance whatsoever that I can see - have any ownership of that blue area at all.

Make it 100% clear to them, in a recordable way, that they are NOT to take the law into their own hands and make any move to take over anything beyond their existing fence. The ONLY way they should proceed - if they truly believe they have a case - is via the correct legal means. And they haven't a scooby of doing this.

They are almost certainly deluded, entitled, nutjobs. I'm being kind there.

It is not for you to demonstrate to them that it's your land, beyond what these deeds maps show. Take this to its logical conclusion; if another neighbour walked on to your front driveway, claimed the land as theirs, and then - when you kindly told them to not be so silly - they insisted that YOU prove it's yours, what would you say and do? After you've stopped laughing and reached for your phone? The same applies here - the boundaries are clear on your map, and you do not need to jump through hoops at the behest of these stupid people. Just state it, once, in a recordable manner, and if they then do anything, you get your LP to kick their butts. And call the local police if they come on to your land.

Inform them, and cover yourself with CCTV. Almost certainly nothing will come of this.

There is always a chance that the council could, in future, enforce their rights over that blue area (and similar blue areas of your side neighbours), but that's a completely separate issue; it has nothing to do with your 'end' neighbour.