Anyone noticed changes at Octopus

DarthDaisy

Has anyone noticed any changes in the way Octopus is billing customers who do not have a Smart Meter and are paying by Flexible Direct Debit (paying in full each month)?

I am referring to 

1. Generating estimated bills despite website saying they only bill when you provide a read unless it has been three months?

2. Generating estimated bills mid month for 14 days when reads have been provided for the 1st and correct bill generated already?

This behaviour seems to differ from the Octopus website which has two references that say they will NOT issue estimated bills unless they have not had a read for three months. 

First there is the page on their FAQ called

When does Octopus send my statements?

"Unlike most energy suppliers, we don’t automatically send energy statements monthly for the majority of our customers. Instead, we'll send you a statement whenever you submit a meter reading."

"If you have a smart meter, you’ll receive a statement every month. If you’d like to change the date you receive your statements, get in touch to let us know.

If you have a non-smart meter, we do things a little differently. We won’t send you a statement every month. Instead, you can  and we’ll send you a statement within a few days. 

If you don’t send us readings, we’ll send you an estimated bill every three months.

We do it this way because we want to avoid estimating your energy usage where possible. Real meter readings make your statements a lot more accurate. There’s more information about  on our blog."

 

The Octopus blog goes on to explain this policy further

"We make it super easy for you to submit your readings.

Too often, automatic statements rely on estimations of how much energy you've used for the past month (unless you've got a smart meter). These energy usage estimates aren’t always accurate. If we bill you based on estimates for too long, your account can end up with a big debt or credit balance.

The only way we can charge you for the energy you’re really using is if you give us regular meter readings.

Plus, we like you to be in control wherever possible. So you get to choose when you get a statement!

Why are estimated readings risky?

Basically, they’re just educated guesses. To estimate how much energy we reckon you’ll use, we look at:

• past meter readings you’ve given us (which means submitting readings regularly makes our estimates more accurate, too)
• historic energy usage data from your old supplier(s)
• the annual usage figures you gave us when you signed up

With all this info, we can usually get your energy usage estimates pretty close. But...

Our estimates don't account for you suddenly using energy differently in your home.

That hot tub you’ve just installed? That tropical aquarium you don’t need to heat anymore because your weird uncle sold all your exotic fish on ebay? We don’t know about it, unless you give us meter readings.

Equally, if you’ve just moved into a new place, our estimates will all be based on the usage of the previous occupants. If you’re a don’t-leave-the-TV-on-standby person, you don’t want to be billed based on the consumption figures of a 24/7-chocolate-fountain person.

If we estimate that you’re using more, or less, energy than you really are, your statements could be wrong for months. When you do end up submitting a meter reading, you might be stuck with an unexpected debt to pay if the estimates were too low. Or find out that you've been overpaying for your energy without realising it!

The solution

Every month, we send you a reminder to submit meter readings. We know, we know – it feels a bit like being told to eat your greens. But we even have a wheel of fortune game – every time you submit a reading, you get a spin the wheel for a chance to win up to £512 credit!

Within a few days of submitting your readings, we'll send you an accurate energy statement based on your real energy consumption. If you don't send us readings for over three months, we'll automatically send you a bill based on estimates.

And one final thing...

Other suppliers often only send bills every 3 months (known as quarterly billing) which mean months of inaccuracy. We work really hard to help you stay on top of your bills, and regular updates on what you are using, and what you need to pay, is best. It's why Octopus Energy has never offered quarterly billing as a payment option - we do ask that you pay us monthly.

Keep_pedalling

The opening quote says for the majority of their customers which means it is not the case for all.

Do you regularly fail to provide monthly readings?

bob2302

If those rules ever applied to variable DD, then they created a loophole where customers could effectively pay 90 days in arrears without paying extra for it. I'm pleased to see they have closed that loophole - even though issuing an estimated bill that close to a manual reading is a bit silly.

DarthDaisy

Keep_pedalling said:

The opening quote says for the majority of their customers which means it is not the case for all.

Do you regularly fail to provide monthly readings?

That is one way of looking at it, but I am asking about whether anyone has noticed any changes.I don't think it is helpful to dissect a comment as it may be taken out the context, the full statement was

"Unlike most energy suppliers, we don’t automatically send energy statements monthly for the majority of our customers. Instead, we'll send you a statement whenever you submit a meter reading."

No, reads have always been provided them within days of the first of the month, they advised that when you post a read you can use the pull down menu to put a date from the last ten days, so one could post a read on the 10th but set the date on the 10th and they would use the day before the 1st because they are super passionate about accuracy (but fail to provide a time field for the read.  

They said that this 10 day feature is provided to allow people on Flexible Direct Debit to have their payment scheduled for 14 days after the date a read is posted.  So if you posted on the 7th your Direct Debit would go out on or around the 21st.  People on fixed direct debit just choose their DD date.

So they get the read, produce the bill promptly and all is wonderful, then they generate another bill mid month using estimated read for the 1st to the date the 2nd bill is produced (e.g. 16 days).

Octopus could not explain why they did this, but they have generated as many as 4 bills in a month.

They are still more flexible than most energy companies but I was just trying to ascertain whether anyone else is having weird issues on billing.

DarthDaisy

bob2302 said:

If those rules ever applied to variable DD, then they created a loophole where customers could effectively pay 90 days in arrears without paying extra for it. I'm pleased to see they have closed that loophole - even though issuing an estimated bill that close to a manual reading is a bit silly.

They do not see it as a loophole but a benefit of dealing with them.

They say they do it that way because they want accurate bills.

Why would you be pleased or even care that other customers could effectively pay 90 days in arrears, surely your only concern is what you pay or how you are dealt with?

Prior to smart meters energy companies billed quarterly so for the same 90 days.

The reason for the post is because Octopus told me they are stumped, I am trying to find out if anyone on flexible DD noticed a change in billing, they say they will investigate it but they have failed to confirm that in writing.

Spoonie_Turtle

A few years back, maybe 2021? I forgot to give a reading one month and got an estimated bill, 6 weeks after the previous (accurate) bill. 
[We had a fixed DD not variable though so not exactly the sane situation as the OP is asking.]

bob2302

DarthDaisy said:

bob2302 said:

If those rules ever applied to variable DD, then they created a loophole where customers could effectively pay 90 days in arrears without paying extra for it. I'm pleased to see they have closed that loophole - even though issuing an estimated bill that close to a manual reading is a bit silly.

They do not see it as a loophole but a benefit of dealing with them.

They say they do it that way because they want accurate bills.

When someone pays a fixed DD, there is no significant advantage to the supplier to issue an estimated bill every month. The money still goes into their account and there is no new information about changed usage in an estimate. With a variable DD the supplier has to issue a bill to be paid. Waiting 90 days between bills affects cashflow.

When they say "most" I think they are, at least, reserving the right not to apply those rules to variable DDs. Most people pay fixed DDs.

People used to pay quarterly in arrears, but when DDs came in there was a discount for it. These days, you can expect to pay extra for quarterly billing - if it's even supported.

There clearly is a problem in that you are getting a gratuitous number of bills, but I don't think that the text you quoted is very relevant.

DarthDaisy

The reason for the post was to find out if this was a widely occurring problem or a corruption of the account, there have been other issues which suggest the migration did not go totally smoothly.

For me, it is a matter of reputation, do what you say you are going to do, so when they say

"We won’t send you a statement every month.

Instead, you can send us your readings and we’ll send you a statement within a few days. 

If you don’t send us readings, we’ll send you an estimated bill every three months.

We do it this way because we want to avoid estimating your energy usage where possible. Real meter readings make your statements a lot more accurate. "

I don't think that there is any doubt that any reasonable person would interpret this as

"We won't send you an estimated bill unless you fail to send reads for three months"

One of the best things about Octopus is that the portal shows you what you owe very shortly after you submit a read and a PDF bill usually within 24 hours or less.  I imagine people on an ultra low income would like this model because they could get a bill and DD every two weeks simply by submitting a read.

However, to have billing issues like this make a farce of it.  How would you manage your budget if you had to calculate and audit 4 bills in half a month. 

Another good thing about Octopus is the bills only use 2 to 3 pages and are easy to understand.

The Octopus Home Mini would be the icing on the cake and a reason why some would want a Smart Meter, sadly they are in short supply.

bob2302

DarthDaisy said:

The Octopus Home Mini would be the icing on the cake and a reason why some would want a Smart Meter, sadly they are in short supply.

I got mine in about 6 weeks after I requested it - certainly no more than 8 weeks because that's how long I'd been with Octopus at the time. It wont help with billing AFAIK.

Hoenir

DarthDaisy said:

I don't think that there is any doubt that any reasonable person would interpret this as

"We won't send you an estimated bill unless you fail to send reads for three months"

How energy billing worked for many years. Be pointless sending estimated bills or notifications anymore frequently. Enables people to budget and provides a timely reminder. 

PhilipCSwift

Keep_pedalling said:

The opening quote says for the majority of their customers which means it is not the case for all.

Do you regularly fail to provide monthly readings?

It's not a failure to provide only monthly readings. Octopus Energy only 'ask' people do.