UKPS - Controlled Land - Waterside Inn

Gerrard00004

Morning all,

I apologise for starting a new post. I have viewed the Newbie thread but am still unsure of what needs to be done and the best way to go about it.

Basics;
The car park in question is for a pub which has been closed for about 3 years, the driver didn't even know there was a pub there.
Total time the car was stationary for was about 9 minutes.
Letter from UKPS advises that they have issued a Parking Charge Notice, to your vehicle because it was parked in a manner whereby the driver became liable for a parking charge.
They have requested the owners details from the DVLA, through reasonable cause criteria of pursuing an outstanding charge. The reason the PCN was issued, is for Unauthorised Entry/Parking.
The letter does not inform you that you can view the evidence that have only the basics of contesting it.
Having gone on their website it is clear that they use CCTV as well as the ANPR camera. As far as I am aware there is no signage to inform people that they are being recorded, the camera also records people off site.
Signage is poor, it is fixed to a fence which has shrubbery partially obstructing it, there is also a sign on the land that is worded "please note that the car park at the Waterside Inn is for patrons of the public house only and fines are currently being issued to non-patrons who park there". As mentioned pub is closed.
I have tried to identify the owners of the land, I believe it used to be owned by Stonegate Inns, however Gov.Uk suggests it was owned by Crazy Pubs Ltd. whom were dissolved in 2021. There has been recent planning applications by Cresco Developments. To me this suggests that there is no agreement with the Landowner.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Gr1pr

UKPS are never going to cancel the PCN, regardless of any appeal 

If Cresco or the landowner cancel then that could work, plan A, always a good plan

Poor and inadequate signage is always in your favour should it go to court 

If there is no actual landowner authority in place then its unenforceable in court 

A typical response to the PCN is plan B , an appeal to UKPS by the keeper , rather than ignore 

After that, ignore anything in the future likely debt collectors letters, but do not ignore an LoC or Court claim 

Edit 

This has happened previously when People park there due to going to the nearby McDonald's 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6359356/ukps-parking-ticket

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6320266/ukps-ltd-waterside-inn

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6261238/next-steps-after-receipt-of-response-topcn-appeal

https://www.warwickshireworld.com/news/people/its-like-a-trap-motorists-warning-about-fines-for-using-car-park-at-disused-leamington-pub-3379421

But there are several pubs with that name in numerous places around the UK 

fisherjim

Is this The Waterside Inn Leamington, if so this honey trap has been making money for these scammers for years?

If so it crops up here regularly unfortunately posters rarely come back with the outcome to their battle with these scammers.

According to GSV there is a sign saying:

"....... fines are currently being issued to non-patrons who park there"

If so that is misrepresentation of authority and needs reporting to The IPC (probably not much use they are useless but it's fun), but it is installed directly under a UKPS sign so they must be aware of it as the pub has been closed for so long.

This is quite clearly a trap, as the premise is closed the landowner (Cresco Investors) could quite clearly barrier it off (with that open gate!) to stop unauthorised access but have not.

The signage is clearly deficient, it does not comply with the IPC COP.

The external signage basically invites you in to review the terms and conditions, then when you get in park and read the signs they have been changed to tell you there is no parking offered.

The IPC COP from what I can see should allow you a consideration period 5 mins as a customer and 10 mins grace period, or 10 mins grace period if a restricted site i.e. permitted users, but who knows it's a scam by any explanation.

https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/IPC Code of PracticeV9 V4.pdf

Coupon-mad

Just ignore them.

Come back if ever they try a small claim (unlikely) and only contact them to tell them if you move house. That's it!

Grizebeck

Ukps can be safely ignored 

Gerrard00004

Thank you all for your responses. @fisherjim I was unaware of there being a CCTV sign at the front. Iv got to admit, I am actually impressed with their honesty of the cameras being there for "pursueing" (Sic) - emphasis on the 'Sue' - Parking Charge Notices.

So are we in agreement that I do not do anything and see if it is just a honey trap/see if the threat makes them pay? how do I officially find out who the land owner is?

Thanks again

Coupon-mad

Yes, I agree with @Grizebeck

Gerrard00004

The last link of @Gr1rp states that UKPS took up management of this car park in 2018.
According to Gov.uk two Romanian individuals, a chef and a kitchen operative took ownership of shares in 2020, before the company was dissolved. Sounds a bit suspicious. 
I think I will let it play out. I will definitely come back for further advice or to let you know how I got on. 

Gerrard00004

A quick update, I received a generic letter on the 13/6/24.

Parking Charge Notice is overdue.
Contravention is: unauthorised entry/parking.
Vehicle Keeper Details were obtained from the DVLA through the Reasonable Clause criteria of pursuing an outstanding parking charge.
As the contracted agent the creditor, UKPS Limited now request that the amount of £100 is paid.

I take it this is all standard content. I will post again when I receive further correspondence.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Please don't tell us about the threatogram stage. It's fully covered in the 4th post of the NEWBIES FAQS thread already and we are only needed if you get a court claim (which almost certainly won't happen).

zoecg92

Hello! New to the forum but wanted to share my experience with this carpark. I parked at the carpark back in 2023 for about 5 minutes and received the PCN in the post shortly after.

My case is now being dealt with by ‘trace debt recovery’ on behalf of UKPS Ltd, they have escalated it to their solicitor etc. I’ve had my 5th letter now chasing the fine and threatening court. 

im commenting really to stay in the loop with this thread and will update of course if it goes any further!