2x CCJ's - Civil Enforcement Limited - Private Parking Violation

RedOrchid

Hi everyone, 

I'm new to this forum and would very much appreciate any help I can get on this matter. Below is a summary of what happened, I've also tried to put a timeline together but please do let me know if I should add any more information to help with my case. 

I've recently decided to subscribe to an additional credit checker online (TransUnion) as I was previously only checking with Equifax & ClearScore. When I signed up for TransUnion, my credit was within the "poor" banding which prompted me to check the root cause and I found two CCJs against my name, both CCJs from Civil Enforcement Limited and both "served" on the 21st December 2023. The two alleged violations took place on the 20/10/2020 and the other on the 15/05/2021, the address linked to both CCJs (again, served on the 21st December 2023, more than 3 years after the alleged contravention) was my address at the time, in 2020 and 2021, at the time I lived in a Pub in a rural village and I can honestly say I saw any letters claiming that I had committed a contravention, I used said car park quite frequently when getting a haircut and have always used their pay machines although It's hard for me to prove payment for something that has happened over 4 years ago, with cash. 

Since 2020/2021, I have moved to 3 different addresses, my latest address move being before the CCJ's issue date (Moved to newest address in September 2023, DVLA records and V5C updated to that address in October 2023) so I was never "served" with any papers to indicate that legal action was being taken against me, until I found the CCJs in my credit report. The CCJ's have both got an amount of £335 & £327 respectively. 

I have done some research in this forum but would really appreciate any guidance and advice. I also have a question about the N44 form, would I have to file 2 separate forms, therefore having to pay the fee twice or will I be able to file a single form to set aside both CCJ's as they come from the same claimant? 

Please feel free to ask me anything else, I believe I have written all the facts but if you think I could clarify anything to support my case, let me know! 

Thank you all in advance. 

RedOrchid

Apologies, I forgot to include that I have seen one CCJ in my credit report back in December (With Equifax) and have paid it on the 29th December 2023, I have a bank statement to prove that the money left my account and into Civil Enforcement Limited's account that day, however I am unsure which CCJ this relates to, I paid £1.70 more than the £336 shown in the CCJ report I obtained from the court. Could it be that they have not informed the court that this CCJ was paid and therefore needed to be removed? I'm also not sure why the second CCJ didn't show on my report back in December 2023. 

Coupon-mad

RedOrchid said:

Apologies, I forgot to include that I have seen one CCJ in my credit report back in December (With Equifax) and have paid it on the 29th December 2023, I have a bank statement to prove that the money left my account and into Civil Enforcement Limited's account that day, however I am unsure which CCJ this relates to, I paid £1.70 more than the £336 shown in the CCJ report I obtained from the court. Could it be that they have not informed the court that this CCJ was paid and therefore needed to be removed? I'm also not sure why the second CCJ didn't show on my report back in December 2023. 

Include that point in your email you send to CEL suggesting THEY pay the fees for these two applications (the email shown in the CCJ set aside section of the NEWBIES thread).

DO NOT accept CEL sending you a bad Consent Order and wanting £95 per case to be paid.  The Consent Order has to be good enough for a Judge to agree it and CEL ones are often really woolly.

Otherwise crack on after that with 2 x £303 N244s without consent, later this month (asking the court to Order that CEL pay both fees). You MUST 'act promptly' with applications so do all of it in June.

Are both claims about the same car & location? You need to phone the CNBC at Northampton to get both Particulars of Claim emailed to you. Do that today. Stay on the phone till they answer (could be over an hour).

DO NOT listen to their clerks if they try to tell you that you are "better off paying" due to the £303 fee.  They are wrong because paying now cements the credit file damage for 6 years. You want both CCJs wiped.  Different concept!

Le_Kirk

RedOrchid said:

Apologies, I forgot to include that I have seen one CCJ in my credit report back in December (With Equifax) and have paid it on the 29th December 2023, I have a bank statement to prove that the money left my account and into Civil Enforcement Limited's account that day, however I am unsure which CCJ this relates to, I paid £1.70 more than the £336 shown in the CCJ report I obtained from the court. Could it be that they have not informed the court that this CCJ was paid and therefore needed to be removed? I'm also not sure why the second CCJ didn't show on my report back in December 2023. 

Did you pay in in time to have it removed or was it perhaps marked as "satisfied"?

RedOrchid

Coupon-mad said:

Include that point in your email you send to CEL suggesting THEY pay the fees for these two applications (the email shown in the CCJ set aside section of the NEWBIES thread).

DO NOT accept CEL sending you a bad Consent Order and wanting £95 per case to be paid.  The Consent Order has to be good enough for a Judge to agree it and CEL ones are often really woolly.

Otherwise crack on after that with 2 x £303 N244s without consent, later this month (asking the court to Order that CEL pay both fees). You MUST 'act promptly' with applications so do all of it in June.

Are both claims about the same car & location? You need to phone the CNBC at Northampton to get both Particulars of Claim emailed to you. Do that today. Stay on the phone till they answer (could be over an hour).

DO NOT listen to their clerks if they try to tell you that you are "better off paying" due to the £303 fee.  They are wrong because paying now cements the credit file damage for 6 years. You want both CCJs wiped.  Different concept!

Hi 

@Coupon-mad

Thank you for getting back to me. I'd like to get clarification on a few points if you don't mind. 

You're suggesting I send CEL an email suggesting they pay the fees for both applications to set them aside, therefore reverting the charge to it's original amount which should be the parking fee? Also attaching the link of the email you sign posted here to clear any ambiguity! 

 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80636476/#Comment_80636476

Found these emails for CEL, do you know whether they're still accurate? I couldn't find anything online, poor searching skills, apologies in advance. 

office@ce-service.co.uk

Legal3@ce-service.co.uk

You mentioned I should just crack on with the set aside (without consent) and pay up the fee for both cases, how likely are my chances of getting that money back? I know for a fact I've already paid to settle one of the CCJ's 8 days within the issue date. 

Both claims are for the same car and location yes, I phoned CNBC this morning and acquired the PCN numbers for both, do I still need the Particulars of Claim? Not sure what those are but I can guess from its name! 

RedOrchid

Le_Kirk said:

RedOrchid said:

Apologies, I forgot to include that I have seen one CCJ in my credit report back in December (With Equifax) and have paid it on the 29th December 2023, I have a bank statement to prove that the money left my account and into Civil Enforcement Limited's account that day, however I am unsure which CCJ this relates to, I paid £1.70 more than the £336 shown in the CCJ report I obtained from the court. Could it be that they have not informed the court that this CCJ was paid and therefore needed to be removed? I'm also not sure why the second CCJ didn't show on my report back in December 2023. 

Did you pay in in time to have it removed or was it perhaps marked as "satisfied"?

I paid one of them in time, 8 days after its issue date, the other I was completely unaware of, however my record shows 2 Active CCJ's (Unsatisfied)! 

Coupon-mad

Yes you need the 2 POCs (as I advised). I already knew you'd called the CNBC once.

Nothing in my advice has changed but I've no idea how you made this leap:

"therefore reverting the charge to it's original amount which should be the parking fee?"

No. How did you jump to that assumption? That's not what the advice says at all.  In fact I even added a caveat NOT TO AGREE TO PAY A SUM TO CEL.  That's not what we do.

The fact they didn't check your address (at pre-litigation stage) means they are in breach of the BPA CoP so of course you are likely to get your £303 x 2 back.  You must be ready to ask the Judge and explain that CEL have acted wholly unreasonably.

RedOrchid

Coupon-mad said:

Yes you need the 2 POCs (as I advised). I already knew you'd called the CNBC once.

Nothing in my advice has changed but I've no idea how you made this leap:

"therefore reverting the charge to it's original amount which should be the parking fee?"

No. How did you jump to that assumption? That's not what the advice says at all.  In fact I even added a caveat NOT TO AGREE TO PAY A SUM TO CEL.  That's not what we do.

The fact they didn't check your address (at pre-litigation stage) means they are in breach of the BPA CoP so of course you are likely to get your £303 x 2 back.  You must be ready to ask the Judge and explain that CEL have acted wholly unreasonably.

Hi there, 

Apologies for misinterpreting your latest response, It's now clear to me the purpose of the draft email in here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80636476/#Comment_80636476.

So that is step 1, should they agree to do this, the matter won't need to be escalated by me via two "without consent" N244s? 

Do you know what happens if they do agree to set them aside, the draft email quotes:

"In view of the foregoing, I invite the Claimant to join with me in an application to set aside the judgment and dismiss the claim, with the Claimant paying the court fee and no order as to costs." 

What would I have to do in this case? I want to get things moving as quickly as possible as this month is very tight for me unfortunately. 

Coupon-mad

They won't agree. I told you what they'll do.  This month is tight for you, I get that.  But this is your credit rating at stake and it is a REQUIREMENT of the Judge that you act promptly.  It can make the difference between yes and no to an application.

All I am saying to do this week is a phone call and one (easy) template email with an added bit demanding they explain why they have not informed the court that one CCJ was paid and therefore needed to be removed.  

RedOrchid

I'm currently on the phone to CNBC and will ask for the two PoC's, following that I will get started with the email template provided and adjust to my case. 

RedOrchid

I've just received both PoC's from the CNBC, drafting my email now and could use some help, I've highlighted and marked in Italic the areas I'm unsure of, sorry in advance, not trying to have anyone fill the gaps for me but any direction is welcome, thank you. 

1. Should I include my name and PCN numbers? 
2. Should I strike out "Claimant" and replace with "Civil Enforcement Limited"? They are both the claimant and the solicitor. 

URGENT

Dear Sirs,

CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED (THE ‘CLAIMANT’)  V [        MY NAME?                ] CLAIM REFERENCE [     PCN NUMBER?        ]

On the 10 June 2024, I discovered via a credit report that I have two CCJ's against my name from yourselves. This came as a tremendous shock as it is the first and only communication I have received from the Claimant or any organisation representing the Claimant in relation to this claim.   

I made immediate enquiries of the CNBC from which I was able to establish that:

1.       the claim relates to two alleged parking events, one in October 2020 and one in May 2021;

2.       the claim form was sent to an old address at which I no longer reside; and

3.       if I had been given the opportunity to do so, I would have successfully defended the claim.

I did not receive any pre-claim correspondence, not even a letter of claim as required by the PAP. Nor did I receive the claim form or any particulars of claim and was thus deprived of the ability to defend the claim. The Claimant is well aware that people move home from time to time. They also know that I did not respond to any communications sent to me at my old address.

This situation is explicitly dealt with in the Civil Procedure Rules which provide at CPR 6.9(3):

 (3) Where a claimant has reason to believe that the address of the defendant … is an address at which the defendant no longer resides or carries on business, the claimant must take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of the defendant’s current residence or place of business (‘current address’).

The Claimant is a member of the British Parking Association (the ‘BPA’) and is bound by the BPA’s Code of Practice which gives voice to CPR 6.9(3) in the following terms:

 24.1c Before serving a Letter Before Claim and prior to the issue of proceedings, Operators must, if no responses have been received to the NTD/NTK/reminder letters, take reasonable endeavours to ensure that the contact details for the person you are writing to are correct.

 If the Claimant had taken the actions required by the Civil Procedure Rules and the Code of Practice, my current address would have been found easily. If those actions had been performed at the correct time rather than after judgment, I would not have been deprived of the ability to defend the claim.

By reason of the Claimant’s breach of the Civil Procedure Rules, which amounts to an abuse of the process of the Court, the claim form was never properly served and the judgment must be set aside at the Claimant’s expense and the claim dismissed because it is now too late for the particulars of claim to be re-served.

In view of the foregoing, I invite the Claimant to join with me in an application to set aside the judgment and dismiss the claim, with the Claimant paying the court fee and no order as to costs.

Please respond to the above offer as soon as possible so that, if the offer is acceptable to the Claimant, we can work together to right the wrong that the Claimant has done to me.

To give you a reasonable time to take instructions and for us to agree a suite of documents for the Court, I am willing to defer making a unilateral application to set aside the judgment until 4 pm on 18 March 2024. If a joint application has not been made by that time, I intend to instruct a solicitor to apply to the Court unilaterally for an order setting the judgment aside, striking out the particulars of claim, dismissing the claim and awarding costs against the Claimant on a full indemnity basis.

Pease respond by immediate return.

Yours faithfully,