Carer Element/Premium added to ESA

xxxxxxxx

Of course Carer's Allowance receive the recovery as a calculation, it is known as a "recovery". 
And CA have told OP they did not receive the recovery.

What you say makes no sense, If ESA have done the work, they should be able to tell OP what date CA has been put into other benefits and explain it.

Danien

xxxxxxxx said:

Of course Carer's Allowance receive the recovery as a calculation, it is known as a "recovery". 
And CA have told OP they did not receive the recovery.

What you say makes no sense, If ESA have done the work, they should be able to tell OP what date CA has been put into other benefits and explain it.

As far as I’m aware, ESA tell CA when to start payment in order to prevent an overpayment of ESA. 

ESA deal with reconciliation for the weeks from the date of CA award to the day before CA is put into payment. CA don't need to know anything except when ESA are ready to do that reconciliation and pay any arrears. Arrears are always paid by ESA if income based ESA is in payment. If CA hadn't heard from ESA, then they wouldn't have put CA into payment, otherwise the claimant risks being overpaid ESA. As CA is in payment, ESA have given the go ahead. I'm not sure what you're confused over.

Your last paragraph makes no sense to me, I really don't know what you're trying to say.

xxxxxxxx

Danien said:

As far as I’m aware, ESA tell CA when to start payment in order to prevent an overpayment of ESA. 

Incorrect.  CA gives ESA an opportunity and a deadline to reply, if ESA does not reply CA can stall and ask ESA again, but if ESA does not reply, CA has to go into payment.

Danien said:

Your last paragraph makes no sense to me, I really don't know what you're trying to say.

This explains a lot.

xxxxxxxx

KKKKK 
What date is the end of your ESA Week, the day ESA is paid on, has to be Mon to Friday.  And what was the last date you were paid esa?

Danien

xxxxxxxx said:

Danien said:

As far as I’m aware, ESA tell CA when to start payment in order to prevent an overpayment of ESA. 

Incorrect.  CA gives ESA an opportunity and a deadline to reply, if ESA does not reply CA can stall and ask ESA again, but if ESA does not reply, CA has to go into payment.

Danien said:

Your last paragraph makes no sense to me, I really don't know what you're trying to say.

This explains a lot.

Good grief! The OP has stated they phoned the ESA dept and that they are aware of the carer's allowance and have told them what they are doing.

Also now you are contradicting what you said before. I worry you are confusing the OP.

I I didn't understand what you said because you made no sense.

If the OP doesn't get a new award letter by two weeks before the underpayment arrears runs out, then contact ESA again to be sure you don't get an overpayment. I don't see a problem here. Stop confusing and worrying the OP.

kkkklinky

The situation has now  been fully resolved...my partner rang ESA and "they didn't know" I was getting CA which was why I never received any premiums, they had been contacted by CA but had never responded for whatever reason. Turns out I am owed backdated CA on top of premiums I'm owed, so the award letter was completely wrong. I will receive a small amount of backdated CA on Wednesday. Changes to my ESA start on my next payment.

poppy12345

kkkklinky said:

The situation has now  been fully resolved...my partner rang ESA and "they didn't know" I was getting CA which was why I never received any premiums, they had been contacted by CA but had never responded for whatever reason. Turns out I am owed backdated CA on top of premiums I'm owed, so the award letter was completely wrong. I will receive a small amount of backdated CA on Wednesday. Changes to my ESA start on my next payment.

Which means that xxxxxxxx was correct. Glad it's finally been resolved. 

xxxxxxxx

Danien said:

As far as I’m aware, ESA tell CA when to start payment in order to prevent an overpayment of ESA. 

ESA deal with reconciliation for the weeks from the date of CA award to the day before CA is put into payment. CA don't need to know anything except when ESA are ready to do that reconciliation and pay any arrears. Arrears are always paid by ESA if income based ESA is in payment. If CA hadn't heard from ESA, then they wouldn't have put CA into payment, otherwise the claimant risks being overpaid ESA. As CA is in payment, ESA have given the go ahead. I'm not sure what you're confused over.

The arrears are paid by Carer's Allowance, your logic is contradictory, throughout this thread you have been half right and half wrong, too many times for me to show you where.

Danien said:

Good grief! The OP has stated they phoned the ESA dept and that they are aware of the carer's allowance and have told them what they are doing.

Relying on phone monkeys is not a good idea especially when what they are saying does not make sense.

Danien said:

Also now you are contradicting what you said before. I worry you are confusing the OP.

I said CA gives ESA a deadline, (I actually do not know what their deadline is) and it is usual practice for CA to chase ESA if no reply, however, we are talking about humans, a human has to remember to chase ESA, A human is reluctant to keep chasing ESA to do their job properly only to be constantly ignored by ESA. Eventually, when CA has had enough of ESA not replying, CA will start to pay the CA from the end of the recovery period -which in this case is from 17/06/2024-  and OP had confirmation this had happened when he started receiving CA regular payments. CA will still hang on to the arrears for a lot longer, until claimant complains and ESA is refusing to reply, then CA may pay the arrears in full because they have no choice, because they have no evidence to the contrary to continue to withhold payment. 

Danien said:

I didn't understand what you said because you made no sense.

I simply said, if ESA has "done the work" i.e. looked at the CA recovery and taken appropriate action then the CA will have been added to "ESA - other benefits" with a start date for taking CA into account.  And the phone monkeys would be able to tell OP what that start date is.

Danien said:

If the OP doesn't get a new award letter by two weeks before the underpayment arrears runs out, then contact ESA again to be sure you don't get an overpayment. I don't see a problem here. Stop confusing and worrying the OP.

It does not work like that.  There is a specific recovery period of CA of 4 weeks... 20/May to 16/June.  Which can be extended, but CA chose not to extend it.

If ESA had been doing things in an incorrect manner (as you were suggesting) and decided to do a full recovery and then not adjust ESA until a certain period had "run out".
Firstly, they would have updated CA to the other benefits.
Secondly, the mathematics would not have matched, CA arrears. CA arrears 20/May to 16/June are £327.60
ESA is in overpayment to the amount of £36.30 per week, 
36.30 x 9 weeks is £326.70,  That would leave 90p unaccounted for.
Thirdly, because ESA action is incorrect, OP could force CA to pay the correct arrears by Mandatory Reconsideration/Appeal if necessary. And any overpayment on ESA would be wholly official error and non recoverable.

xxxxxxxx

kkkklinky said:

The situation has now  been fully resolved...my partner rang ESA and "they didn't know" I was getting CA which was why I never received any premiums, they had been contacted by CA but had never responded for whatever reason. Turns out I am owed backdated CA on top of premiums I'm owed, so the award letter was completely wrong. I will receive a small amount of backdated CA on Wednesday. Changes to my ESA start on my next payment.

You may have to fight ESA, if your calls to ESA have not been noted down, that you have been calling and asking about CA. 
Theoretically your calls should have been noted and that you were asking about CA starting and ESA sending CA the calculation.

I will assume your ESA payday is the 2nd of July, because you posted here on the 2nd July saying ESA had paid you again.

Your CA recovery period is 20 May to 16 June and the CA arrears withheld for that period are £327.60 

The calculation that should have been done by ESA is
15/May - 21May £36.30 overpayment
22May - 28May £36.30 op
29May - 04Jun £36.30 op
05Jun - 11Jun £36.30 op
TOTAL £145.20

Then CA should have been taken into account on ESA other benefits from 12Jun

and CA office would owe you £327.60 - £145.20 = £182.40  


Because ESA office has finally woken up.

They should now send the above calculation to CA office.
CA office should pay you £182.40

ESA now has an overpayment
12Jun - 18Jun £36.30 op
19Jun - 25Jun £36.30 op
26Jun - 02Jul £36.30 op
TOTAL £108.90

ESA owes you nothing, you are in overpayment with ESA.

Be careful that CA now pays you correctly @ £182.40
and ESA does not try to stitch you up for the ESA op of £108.90

The ESA op is wholly official error and is not recoverable, but this relies on your previous calls to ESA having been noted correctly on your ESA claim.

Alternatively, it also relies on the date of the first CA Letter you had, informing you that CA had been awarded.
 

Danien

xxxxxxxx said:

Danien said:

As far as I’m aware, ESA tell CA when to start payment in order to prevent an overpayment of ESA. 

ESA deal with reconciliation for the weeks from the date of CA award to the day before CA is put into payment. CA don't need to know anything except when ESA are ready to do that reconciliation and pay any arrears. Arrears are always paid by ESA if income based ESA is in payment. If CA hadn't heard from ESA, then they wouldn't have put CA into payment, otherwise the claimant risks being overpaid ESA. As CA is in payment, ESA have given the go ahead. I'm not sure what you're confused over.

The arrears are paid by Carer's Allowance, your logic is contradictory, throughout this thread you have been half right and half wrong, too many times for me to show you where.

Danien said:

Good grief! The OP has stated they phoned the ESA dept and that they are aware of the carer's allowance and have told them what they are doing.

Relying on phone monkeys is not a good idea especially when what they are saying does not make sense.

Danien said:

Also now you are contradicting what you said before. I worry you are confusing the OP.

I said CA gives ESA a deadline, (I actually do not know what their deadline is) and it is usual practice for CA to chase ESA if no reply, however, we are talking about humans, a human has to remember to chase ESA, A human is reluctant to keep chasing ESA to do their job properly only to be constantly ignored by ESA. Eventually, when CA has had enough of ESA not replying, CA will start to pay the CA from the end of the recovery period -which in this case is from 17/06/2024-  and OP had confirmation this had happened when he started receiving CA regular payments. CA will still hang on to the arrears for a lot longer, until claimant complains and ESA is refusing to reply, then CA may pay the arrears in full because they have no choice, because they have no evidence to the contrary to continue to withhold payment. 

Danien said:

I didn't understand what you said because you made no sense.

I simply said, if ESA has "done the work" i.e. looked at the CA recovery and taken appropriate action then the CA will have been added to "ESA - other benefits" with a start date for taking CA into account.  And the phone monkeys would be able to tell OP what that start date is.

Danien said:

If the OP doesn't get a new award letter by two weeks before the underpayment arrears runs out, then contact ESA again to be sure you don't get an overpayment. I don't see a problem here. Stop confusing and worrying the OP.

It does not work like that.  There is a specific recovery period of CA of 4 weeks... 20/May to 16/June.  Which can be extended, but CA chose not to extend it.

If ESA had been doing things in an incorrect manner (as you were suggesting) and decided to do a full recovery and then not adjust ESA until a certain period had "run out".
Firstly, they would have updated CA to the other benefits.
Secondly, the mathematics would not have matched, CA arrears. CA arrears 20/May to 16/June are £327.60
ESA is in overpayment to the amount of £36.30 per week, 
36.30 x 9 weeks is £326.70,  That would leave 90p unaccounted for.
Thirdly, because ESA action is incorrect, OP could force CA to pay the correct arrears by Mandatory Reconsideration/Appeal if necessary. And any overpayment on ESA would be wholly official error and non recoverable.

I have come across many instances of depts doing 'incorrect things' due to workload and staffing. Nothing surprises me. It seems rhe only issue here was that the 'phone monkey' lied on the call reported by the OP. It's true I wa unaware that they lie about basic info like this, though admittedly I should know better, as I'm aware they do lie to try to prevent appeals. I still think some of the things you were asking confused the issue, if it was that the 'phone monkey' lied, then the fact the esa dept didn't have the change of circumstances sorted was the issue. In my 'old style' way of sorting things out now we can't talk to decision makers would be to send a copy of the CA award letter signed for. But I admit when I was wrong, and I was wrong to trust the OP's 'phone monkey'.

But thanks. The way you've reacted to me has convinced me to stop giving advice here on the forums at all. It may be a couple of years since I worked in benefits,  but I felt I had knowledge that might be of benefit as I have extensive appeals experience, plus experience in less well known areas of benefit law. I'm not averse to saying when I'm wrong either, which I've done before. Weirdly, believing what the OP tells me when they say the dept have stated they are aware of a change of circumstances - I accept that this is what they have been told. Obviously my experience of 'phone monkeys' is lacking and I apologise for that.

I'll stay off the boards as this is obviously the territory of the regular board members who are not accepting of newbies like me trying to offer assistance.