We buy any car

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motorman99

It says on every v5 that the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner, but wbac could not have discovered that the seller was fraudulent. 

However the fact remains that since the ‘seller’ of the vehicle did not have title to the car, AND, that by being trade buyers wbac cannot be an ‘innocent purchaser’ of a vehicle, then since the purported seller did not have title to the car then title cannot pass. 

So the op needs to send wbac a letter before action asking for either the car or the money. 

I think the seller would win any court  action 

Phoenix72

motorman99 said:

It says on every v5 that the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner, but wbac could not have discovered that the seller was fraudulent. 

However the fact remains that since the ‘seller’ of the vehicle did not have title to the car, AND, that by being trade buyers wbac cannot be an ‘innocent purchaser’ of a vehicle, then since the purported seller did not have title to the car then title cannot pass. 

So the op needs to send wbac a letter before action asking for either the car or the money. 

I think the seller would win any court  action 

So you are a qualified lawyer to give such an opinion?

born_again

motorman99 said:

It says on every v5 that the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner, but wbac could not have discovered that the seller was fraudulent. 

However the fact remains that since the ‘seller’ of the vehicle did not have title to the car, AND, that by being trade buyers wbac cannot be an ‘innocent purchaser’ of a vehicle, then since the purported seller did not have title to the car then title cannot pass. 

So the op needs to send wbac a letter before action asking for either the car or the money. 

I think the seller would win any court  action 

OP needs to be careful, as a finance provider here. Especially as clearly no finance was registered against the car, begs the question why not? Which would have meant that this would not have happened.
Could end up in a world of pain if unregistered with FCA.

andrewb0101

born_again said:

motorman99 said:

It says on every v5 that the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner, but wbac could not have discovered that the seller was fraudulent. 

However the fact remains that since the ‘seller’ of the vehicle did not have title to the car, AND, that by being trade buyers wbac cannot be an ‘innocent purchaser’ of a vehicle, then since the purported seller did not have title to the car then title cannot pass. 

So the op needs to send wbac a letter before action asking for either the car or the money. 

I think the seller would win any court  action 

OP needs to be careful, as a finance provider here. Especially as clearly no finance was registered against the car, begs the question why not? Which would have meant that this would not have happened.
Could end up in a world of pain if unregistered with FCA.

We buy the cars outright with no finance and put them on an inhouse agreement which is a private agreement between ourselves as the owner of the car and the renter. There is no ongoing finance payment to anyone else. 

moneysaver

This sounds very similar as taking the car on finance then selling it before finance is paid off. The finance company(as legal owner) would seek out the car from whoever bought it and reposses it, as it was not the sellers car to sell.

You might need to review your business plan after this. If this does not go your way what is to stop other drivers doing it.

Moneysaver

MattMattMattUK

andrewb0101 said:

born_again said:

motorman99 said:

It says on every v5 that the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner, but wbac could not have discovered that the seller was fraudulent. 

However the fact remains that since the ‘seller’ of the vehicle did not have title to the car, AND, that by being trade buyers wbac cannot be an ‘innocent purchaser’ of a vehicle, then since the purported seller did not have title to the car then title cannot pass. 

So the op needs to send wbac a letter before action asking for either the car or the money. 

I think the seller would win any court  action 

OP needs to be careful, as a finance provider here. Especially as clearly no finance was registered against the car, begs the question why not? Which would have meant that this would not have happened.
Could end up in a world of pain if unregistered with FCA.

We buy the cars outright with no finance and put them on an inhouse agreement which is a private agreement between ourselves as the owner of the car and the renter. There is no ongoing finance payment to anyone else. 

That is a finance agreement though, yes it is not to "anyone else", but it is between you and the end user. If one rents/leases a car then that is normally recorded as a finance contract, that together with the V5 stops things like this happening.

How big is the business, are you FCA regulated and are you sure you should not be if you are not? I am guessing that you are a smaller owner operated business as you are both asking on here and because of the way you handle V5 documents and say things are done "on trust", which is not how car rental/lease should legally operate.

RefluentBeans

Not a consumer rights issue. Also, I’m afraid, it sounds like there is too much trust in the other party. 

As for what to do now:
1. Consult legal advice. You’re a business, and you should have actual professionals take a look at what you do to make sure what you do is legal, and you minimise your risks. If you don’t have legal professionals, now is a good time to hire some. Free advice from a board like this (which doesn’t constitute legal advice and you should do your own research before taking action) is generally fine for low stake civil claims, but for a business you should get legal advice.
2. Stop perusing WBAC - they haven’t done anything wrong here from the looks of things. They also trusted your hiree and they misrepresented the ownership to them. Your issue is with the hiree who has lied to you and is now (presumably) withholding payment. Seems to me like you should be suing that person for the rest of the payment.
3. Maybe reconsider putting the V5 in their names. If this has happened once, then you should use it as a learning experience.

Again though - get legal advice. Without knowing the whole story, with the intricacies of your business model, which I’d guess you don’t want to share fully online (for fear of identifying the person who hired the car) then the advice we give should be taken with a grain of salt. 

Good luck. 

m0bov

Report it as stolen, then claim on your insurance. They will recoup their costs from the driver.

born_again

andrewb0101 said:

We buy the cars outright with no finance and put them on an inhouse agreement which is a private agreement between ourselves as the owner of the car and the renter. There is no ongoing finance payment to anyone else. 

I'm saying this, not to get at you but to protect you & your investments.

You are a lender as you are providing a finance agreement with the renter of the car. No matter how you word it. Then any of the renters can take the car & walk away. Nothing you can do. As this person has done. Even taking them to court to claim back the funds, could leave you with nothing, if they have no money. 
If the police find out that you are doing as you say & you are not a regulated lender, they have a duty to prosecute. So be very careful reporting stolen cars. if they interview the other party & any financial agreement in mentioned. It will be turned back on you.

Please refer to the FCA on this to make sure you are legal. As had you finance registered on the car this would not have happened, as WBAC would see a finance agreement registered on the car.

It is a criminal offence to lend money without authorisation and can lead to a two year prison sentence and/or £5,000 fine.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/borrowing-money/types-of-borrowing/loans/loan-sharks/