We buy any car

andrewb0101

Short story ... As a business we buy cars for licensed private hire drivers. We put the V5 in their name so it is easy for them to license and insure each year. We hold the bill of sale and invoice for the vehicle as the legal owner. One driver has just sold our car to We buy any car without our permission and they have bought it without checking who the legal owner is ... The police say it is civil matter 

tacpot12

It sounds like fraud to me, as the driver has misrepresented themselves as the owner. The car has also been stolen, i.e. not returned by the driver. The driver intends to permanently deprive you of the vehicle, so it is theft. If you can get formal legal advice to confirm this, call the Police and tell them you have had legal advice that is theft and that you will sue them if they fail to take action. 

user1977

andrewb0101 said:

they have bought it without checking who the legal owner is 

What sort of checks would you expect them to do?

user1977

tacpot12 said:

call the Police and tell them you have had legal advice that is theft and that you will sue them if they fail to take action. 

You might be able to complain about the police failing to take action, but on what basis could you sue them? The police don't pick up the tab for crimes they don't solve, whether or not that's because they didn't bother investigating them.

Alderbank

andrewb0101 said:

Short story ... As a business we buy cars for licensed private hire drivers. We put the V5 in their name so it is easy for them to license and insure each year. We hold the bill of sale and invoice for the vehicle as the legal owner. One driver has just sold our car to We buy any car without our permission and they have bought it without checking who the legal owner is ... The police say it is civil matter 

The story is a bit too short for me...

You buy the cars then lease them on a contract basis to the drivers?
If so, presumably you and each driver enter into a contract covering the use and eventual return of the vehicle?
What are the T&Cs of that contract? (It is a B2B contract, no consumer rights).

If a driver has breached a term of the contract eg. by not returning the vehicle when required than that is a civil matter. Ultimately your company might have to take him to a civil court to try to recover your losses.

WBAC normally check the various trade databases to confirm history and ownership of vehicles they buy in, they don't just trust the word of whoever brings a car in.
How do you know a driver has sold your car to WBAC? Did the driver tell you (sounds unlikely) or have WBAC traced you?
Presumably your taxis have a plate affixed somewhere saying 'This vehicle is on lease from Andrewb101 Motors'?

born_again

andrewb0101 said:

Short story ... As a business we buy cars for licensed private hire drivers. We put the V5 in their name so it is easy for them to license and insure each year. We hold the bill of sale and invoice for the vehicle as the legal owner. One driver has just sold our car to We buy any car without our permission and they have bought it without checking who the legal owner is ... The police say it is civil matter 

WBAC will take the V5 as proof of ownership.
But why put V5 in drivers name. It's normal for lease cars to be in the lease company name. Does not cause any issues to people.

Police are right it is a civil matter & you will have to go down the court route. But do they have funds to pay you back?

andrewb0101

Alderbank said:

andrewb0101 said:

Short story ... As a business we buy cars for licensed private hire drivers. We put the V5 in their name so it is easy for them to license and insure each year. We hold the bill of sale and invoice for the vehicle as the legal owner. One driver has just sold our car to We buy any car without our permission and they have bought it without checking who the legal owner is ... The police say it is civil matter 

The story is a bit too short for me...

You buy the cars then lease them on a contract basis to the drivers?
If so, presumably you and each driver enter into a contract covering the use and eventual return of the vehicle?
What are the T&Cs of that contract? (It is a B2B contract, no consumer rights).

If a driver has breached a term of the contract eg. by not returning the vehicle when required than that is a civil matter. Ultimately your company might have to take him to a civil court to try to recover your losses.

WBAC normally check the various trade databases to confirm history and ownership of vehicles they buy in, they don't just trust the word of whoever brings a car in.
How do you know a driver has sold your car to WBAC? Did the driver tell you (sounds unlikely) or have WBAC traced you?
Presumably your taxis have a plate affixed somewhere saying 'This vehicle is on lease from Andrewb101 Motors'?

Yes, we buy the cars outright. In this case it was a BMW 7 series. We put it out on a rent to buy basis on a contract over 3 years with weekly payments. The contract clearly states in 3 separate places that ownership does not pass until all payments are made. In this case £9.800 was due. The driver went abroad and did not pay for a few weeks ane when contacted said the vehicle was safe in a friends garage. Some 4 weeks later we decided that something was amiss and reported the car stolen. The police found the vehicle in a car park in London and seized it. Someone else also reported it stolen and the police when they investigated found it had been sold to WBAC by the driver, WBAC sold it British Car Auctions who sold it to a dealer who sold it to an end user. At no point did WBAC ask the driver to see a bill of sale or any other proof like an invoice etc from a dealer. I would imagine that WBAC were not advised by the driver that the vehicle had been a private hire (Licensed) vehicle which would have slashed the price they paid him if he had filled out their agreement honestly. 

andrewb0101

born_again said:

andrewb0101 said:

Short story ... As a business we buy cars for licensed private hire drivers. We put the V5 in their name so it is easy for them to license and insure each year. We hold the bill of sale and invoice for the vehicle as the legal owner. One driver has just sold our car to We buy any car without our permission and they have bought it without checking who the legal owner is ... The police say it is civil matter 

WBAC will take the V5 as proof of ownership.
But why put V5 in drivers name. It's normal for lease cars to be in the lease company name. Does not cause any issues to people.

Police are right it is a civil matter & you will have to go down the court route. But do they have funds to pay you back?

We have a fair few cars like this and the licensed trade is built on trust a lot of the time, so we never, until now have had an issue. My gripe and where I am targeting is WBAC for not adhering to their own terms and conditions published on their website. Much easier to go after them as they do have money and create an issue for them to redress. 

andrewb0101

you are the sole legal and beneficial owner of the Car

other than in respect of any finance outstanding on the Car which you have disclosed to us, no person has any claim to the Car;

• the Car's registration document (together with appropriate proof of purchase if requested by us);

Some of WBAC terms and conditions they have not followed 

GrumpyDil

How exactly could WBAC have discovered that the person who sold it to them was not the owner, was the lease agreement registered somewhere that they could and should have found it? 

If you can produce evidence that you owned the vehicle then I suspect you could get a court order stating that fact and could then recover the car.

That would leave the person who currently has the car with a claim against the dealer who would then have a claim against BCA and so on as legally none of the parties would be able to show they had good title to sell the car. 

born_again

As you are providing a financial service lease/lending/loans. Are you FCA registered?

As you should have finance registered against the car to stop a case like this. 

https://www.webuyanycar.com/frequently-asked-questions/

In most cases you will only need:

• Your car's V5C logbook.
• Original photo ID (passport or driving licence).
• Proof of address (such as a utility bill or bank statement) dated within the last 9 months.
• Your bank details (so webuyanycar can pay you).

If applicable, you should also provide additional documentation such as the car's service history or finance settlement letter (if the car is still subject to a finance agreement).

You should also provide both sets of car keys (if possible), along with any extras such as the locking wheel nut.