Dividend history info for Accumulating Funds / ETF ?

BlisteringBarnacles

Will keep it short. Been posting on multiple forums but no replies probably because I write too much.

Problem : Trying to get dividend info / history of dividend payout for Accumulating class Unit Trust / ETF. What I found is : Vanguard.co.uk shows dividend distribution history only for Income Units not Accumulating units. Trustnet shows both but only for Unit Trusts not ETF.

Dont ask me why I want to buy and hold VWRP/VWRA (Vanguard FTSE All World GBP/USD Accumulating ETF) in a UK Taxable account, but if I do, how do I get dividend info ? My broker may not send me a tax certificate. Obviously it will not appear in transaction/statement history since the dividend is not actually paid out.

My plan/thoughts : Look at the Income Flavour of the same ETF, obtain the dividend info/ex-dividend-date from Vanguard/Trustnet, look up price on that date, and obtain dividend yield R = D/P. Now I look at the price of the Accumulation flavour of the same ETF on the same ex-dividend-date. Lets say this price is PF. The Dividend of the Accumulation class unit then becomes PF*R/(1+R)

This is because :

P1 = Price of Income class unit.
D1 = Dividend of Income class unit
Dividend Yield = R = D1/P1
PA = Price of Accumulation class before adding dividend
PF = Final price of Accumulation class unit after adding dividend

Therefore PA(1+R) = PF

in other words, PA = PF/(1+R)

Therefore Dividend of Accumulation class Unit = (PF - PA) i.e PF - PF/(1+R) = PF * R/(1+R)

I tried my calculation for a unit trust where Trustnet provides dividend info for both INC and ACC units and my calculation is pretty close.

Appreciate any comments. Tried my best to keep it short but failed ... oh well ...

Thanks

BlisteringBarnacles

Too much space between paragraphs there. Sorry about that. Makes it a pain to read I can imagine

eskbanker

BlisteringBarnacles said:

My broker may not send me a tax certificate.

Is there any rationale to support this suspicion?

masonic

You can get the information from the fund provider's literature, or a site like Trustnet. Better to use the former, errors have been noted in the feeds supplying some third party sites in the past.

AndyTh_2

For ETFs and other foreign funds you'll have to get their reports from their Fund Manager. Vanguard for example https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investing-explained/general-account-tax-information

Foreign funds may have Excess Reportable Income as well, which is similar to notional distributions from accumulation units, but can also apply sometimes to income distribution funds too.

KPMG has been getting a lot of foreign fund managers to provide their UK reports on it's system, which might be easier to find a foreign fund's reports on that. https://www.kpmgreportingfunds.co.uk/

Trustnet wont help with Excess Reportable Income.

Hoenir

eskbanker said:

BlisteringBarnacles said:

My broker may not send me a tax certificate.

Is there any rationale to support this suspicion?

Who is the broker concerned ? 

Aidanmc

If it is Vanguard ERI values you are looking for you will find them here

https://www.vanguard.co.uk/uk-fund-directory/documents/ie-domiciled-funds/tax-reporting

AndyTh_2

Aidanmc said:

If it is Vanguard ERI values you are looking for you will find them here

https://www.vanguard.co.uk/uk-fund-directory/documents/ie-domiciled-funds/tax-reporting

heh, thanks, I thought initially you posted the same link as me, but that link is better as it doesn't hide the reports in a dropdown

BlisteringBarnacles

Lot of replies, thanks a lot all !! much appreciated

Let say I am looking for Vanguard Irish domiciled UCITS ETF Accumulation version. Let me take an example : VWRP - this is Vanguard FTSE All World ETF Base currency GBP Accumulation version.

- For the Income version of the same (VWRL) I can indeed get dividend info from Vanguard : https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-usd-distributing/overview in DIstribution Tab.
- But click on Accumulation, it switches to VWRP and there is no dividend info  - dont know why Vanguard does show it here !!

Trustnet also says : "No dividend History" https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/O/QJ0X/vanguard-ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-acc-gbp

Cant figure out the ERI document. Takes me to an excel sheet and if I search for Vanguard FTSE All World UCITS ETF I dont see anything. Can someone please explain taking the example of VWRP please ?

Okay I will spill the beans on my problem : I am UK resident and obviously prefer not to hold ACC units in taxable. If I do hold ACC units as I have done by mistake in the past, sure, brokers such as HL and II do send me a tax certificate which mentions the "notional dividend" so my tax reporting gets easy. I can also subtract the dividend from the capital gains at the time of disposal. All good, but preferable to hold Income units in Taxable

Now here is the dilemma. I may be relocating to India and I believe India does not tax dividends on Accumulation units. HL and II are ok with me maintaining my UK accounts and they wont kick me out. Now I prefer to hold ACC units in UK-taxable accounts because India wont tax the dividends. UK also will not tax me if I am non resident. But then if I return to UK before 5 years then I would have to pay back the taxes on these notional dividends. Happy to do that, provided I know what the bloomin dividends were. Once I relocate, I am not sure the broker will send me tax certificates.

is my calculation in my post  (to get dividends for ACC units from INC units) correct, tho ?

Thanks all !

AndyTh_2

https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investing-explained/general-account-tax-information on here is also a guide on ERI as well you could read, as it explains the process of calculating the ERI income for your units

BlisteringBarnacles

Okay I managed to see ERI - thanks a lot ! learnt something today

In the spreadsheet I found IE00BK5BQT80 Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF but it says USD Accumulating.

https://www.vanguard.co.uk/professional/product/etf/equity/9679/ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-usd-accumulating?cmpgn=DP0523UKCENPA0001EN says VWRP which I thought had GBP as base currency but spreadsheet shows currency as USD.

Another strange thing in the spreadsheet is  : reporting period is July to June but fund distribution date is 31 Dec 2023 ! So if I held 1 share I received US $ 1.9696 dividend ? Thats all there is to it ? To convert to sterling am I supposed to use HMRC website ?

Still dont properly understand the difference between VWRP vs VWRA  and VWRD vs VWRL