Is this going to cost me more?

Cinders2001

Hello everyone.

We have had our first EPC done on our rented terraced house and it's a low rating.

The house is fine! It's warm not 'heat-leaky' but they still gave it a low rating.

To help with that, they want to put in a storage heater and add more loft insulation.

Ok, fine.

But they will have to change our electric meter (we have no gas here) to a dual rate meter.
So it's going to be like an economy 7 thingy.
We are at the house all day using electric in the house all day.

Is this going to cost me more money in electricity to have a storage heater then?

Isn't the Economy 7 thingy more expensive electricity in the day time?

If so then I'm a bit miffed! I will be out of pocket just for a rating!

Please let me know if I'm in a dither for nothing or tell me what I can have instead that I can suggest to my landlord that's a cheaper option.

Many thanks yous x

lohr500

How is the house currently heated and how do you heat your hot water?
One storage heater is unlikely to heat the whole home. 

And who is the "they" that wants to make the changes you have mentioned?

BarelySentientAI

Just don't pick an Economy 7 tariff.

If you don't turn the storage heater on, then nothing will be different from now.

MeteredOut

As above, who is "they"?

What sort of heating do you have just now?

And find out what kind of heaters they are proposing to install? Panel heaters are probably the most expensive way to heat a property. Storage heaters may be ok, and an E7 tariff might be a good fit, but you have to understand how they work and how to use them optimally, and also how you currently use your electricity, including uses other than heating.

spot1034

You can always ask to have both readings from an E7 meter charged at the single rate for the tariff you are on, and most suppliers are happy to do this. You need to do detailed sums to work out if that is the right thing to do.

elsien

I might be missing the obvious, but if the house isn’t leaking heat and you’re happy with how it is then why the need to change anything?

Who has this suggestion come from in the first place?
Or is it a below E rating that doesn’t fall into any of the exemptions which the landlord has to address? 

Scot_39

E7 might work if use enough off peak - easier to achieve min required with NSH and HW immersion tank

The main idea behind E7 - is that it can work out cheaper than standard SVT single rate electricity if use around say third (32 to 42%+ say a rough guess) - of total power at off peak rates.

Why the range - well it can and does vary from region to region supplier to supplier and quarter to quarter even - as the underlying prices and demands shift.

So taking on your fear of it costing more - that comes down entirely to the timing and mix you use power. 

So taking an example - one supplier one region

So for instance the first region DD rates from EDF are currenty under Apr Ofgem SVT - for EM region are 13.56p / kWh off peak and 29.14p on e7 and this compares to 23.78p on single rate.  The breakeven point on that can be worked out c 34.4% if I got the maths right

Use enough - just over a third at the above 13.56p (c10p less than single rate) and then you can still afford to pay the c5.4p more on peak rate during the day on the remainder.

But stay on e7 when you don't use that 35% - means you will pay more.

Which then takes us to the NSH (Night Storage Heater)

The whole point of then fitting / using NSHs (really only one ?) is that they charge at the off peak rate - lower than single rate - and release the energy during the peak hours - so save you money on space heating.

If properly sized and a quality lot 20 or even better HHR - it can be programmed to release heat - just as you might a day panel with a timer - but as I say get that for the Off-Peak rate - not single - or Peak rates.

New storage heaters are a lot better than those fitted decades ago - the best in terms of both heat loss and control / programming options.

And that will also ideally apply to your HW immersion tank - even better if that is a mains pressurised tank and it also supplies your shower - as will cover even more of your HW demand (over 50% of my summer eelctric use is HW some days).

Some users will hopefully quote their typical e7 splits.

I am on E10 with all electric - inc 3 NSH in a 2 bed mid terrace, HW tank (shower cold fed electric - so sometimes sadly end up showering at peak rates) - so it's easier to access the off peak energy for washing machines during afternoon and evening slots etc - but I also pay more than e7 per kWh to gain those extra 3 hours.

I use c 50% peak / off peak in summer, but 75-80% annually off peak so it more than breaks even and over 90% in a really cold snap when really turn the heating up (well by my standards).

You say 1 storage heater - and insulation

What about heating other spaces ?

I have 3 in a 2 bed - mid terrace - for living room and upstairs / downstairs halls - and find don't need to use panel heaters in bedrooms etc to supplement their heating.

If you cannot get the % off peak split high enough

As others have said - many if not most suppliers will bill e7 dual readings at single rate - if you cannot get the % off peak high enough - with your usage profile. 

But depending on how landlord does electrics and then the meter operates - you might want to be careful they don't change any ALCS restricted load switching.

Cinders2001

Hi, thank you for the replies.

We are in an old house and we have a coal open fire as heat.
There are plug in electric heaters in the other rooms.
A water heater downstairs for hot water for washing up and an emersion heater for the upstairs - but it's vary rarely used as we have a shower.

The They are our landlords or to be precise, the agent appointed by the landlord.
And it will be the electrician that does the job.

Cinders2001

And we are home all day day using electric so Economy 7 feels like a bad idea.
They are proposing a night storage heater.

Cinders2001

Scot_39 said:

E7 might work if use enough off peak - easier to achieve min required with NSH and HW immersion tank

The main idea behind E7 - is that it can work out cheaper than standard SVT single rate electricity if use around say third (32 to 42%+ say a rough guess) - of total power at off peak rates.

Why the range - well it can and does vary from region to region supplier to supplier and quarter to quarter even - as the underlying prices and demands shift.

So taking on your fear of it costing more - that comes down entirely to the timing and mix you use power. 

So taking an example - one supplier one region

So for instance the first region DD rates from EDF are currenty under Apr Ofgem SVT - for EM region are 13.56p / kWh off peak and 29.14p on e7 and this compares to 23.78p on single rate.  The breakeven point on that can be worked out c 34.4% if I got the maths right

Use enough - just over a third at the above 13.56p (c10p less than single rate) and then you can still afford to pay the c5.4p more on peak rate during the day on the remainder.

But stay on e7 when you don't use that 35% - means you will pay more.

Which then takes us to the NSH (Night Storage Heater)

The whole point of then fitting / using NSHs (really only one ?) is that they charge at the off peak rate - lower than single rate - and release the energy during the peak hours - so save you money on space heating.

If properly sized and a quality lot 20 or even better HHR - it can be programmed to release heat - just as you might a day panel with a timer - but as I say get that for the Off-Peak rate - not single - or Peak rates.

New storage heaters are a lot better than those fitted decades ago - the best in terms of both heat loss and control / programming options.

And that will also ideally apply to your HW immersion tank - even better if that is a mains pressurised tank and it also supplies your shower - as will cover even more of your HW demand (over 50% of my summer eelctric use is HW some days).

Some users will hopefully quote their typical e7 splits.

I am on E10 with all electric - inc 3 NSH in a 2 bed mid terrace, HW tank (shower cold fed electric - so sometimes sadly end up showering at peak rates) - so it's easier to access the off peak energy for washing machines during afternoon and evening slots etc - but I also pay more than e7 per kWh to gain those extra 3 hours.

I use c 50% peak / off peak in summer, but 75-80% annually off peak so it more than breaks even and over 90% in a really cold snap when really turn the heating up (well by my standards).

You say 1 storage heater - and insulation

What about heating other spaces ?

I have 3 in a 2 bed - mid terrace - for living room and upstairs / downstairs halls - and find don't need to use panel heaters in bedrooms etc to supplement their heating.

If you cannot get the % off peak split high enough

As others have said - many if not most suppliers will bill e7 dual readings at single rate - if you cannot get the % off peak high enough - with your usage profile. 

But depending on how landlord does electrics and then the meter operates - you might want to be careful they don't change any ALCS restricted load switching.

Wow, that's detailed, thank you!
Yes only one NSH is required and the extra loft insulation to bring up the EPC to an E rating.
We currently are rather lower than that! 😬
Which is odd, but it's never had an EPC done before and we've been here 30 years.

BarelySentientAI

Cinders2001 said:

Hi, thank you for the replies.

We are in an old house and we have a coal open fire as heat.
There are plug in electric heaters in the other rooms.
A water heater downstairs for hot water for washing up and an emersion heater for the upstairs - but it's vary rarely used as we have a shower.

The They are our landlords or to be precise, the agent appointed by the landlord.
And it will be the electrician that does the job.

Storage heater on E7 night rate will be cheaper than plug in heaters on normal rate.

Although, as you say, anything on E7 day rate will be more expensive.

Heating and hot water are the biggest consumers - if you do those on the night rate then you almost always 'win' with E7, no matter what you are doing at home in the day.